Spax springs now available for Trophy

[Nik]

Spax have started selling -20mm springs specifically for the Trophy:

Available to purchase here: http://www.motorsportworld.co.uk/detPro ... PID=174940

In the SPAX catalogue here: http://www.spax.co.uk/downloads/Springs ... ngkits.PDF


Discuss.... :-k

 

[y0z2a]

doesn't the trophy have Eibach Sportlines on it anyway?

/y0z

 

[hyb]

Ok big question, what does it do to the handling

 

[7MAT]

My previous experience with lowering springs is they shorten the life span of your shocks by more than double - how much are Trophy shocks again?

Although I must say it’s tempting as the Trophy could do with a small drop IMHO.

Not used Spax products before, are the springs progressive?

So who’s going to be first – price seems OK?

7MAT

 

[mr StinKa gob]

If you change the springs you change the dynamics of the dampers too. Ive never seen the point of changing only the springs in a car unless it has an inherent problem and needs them changed. People do this on the williams. I just dont see the point. Everything drops out of equilibrium. The springs and dampers are in a constant state of dynamics, and changing one parameter is pointless without considering all the other parameters.

IMO changing springs requires consideration for changing, dampers (bump and rebound), tyres, suspension settings (camber, toe, caster etc). Ie you change one thing, you effect everything.

Its too simplistic to expect 'improvements' from changing a spring. Of course some manufacturers do mess up (or not bother) the setting up of a car. Some cases a quick spring change can improve the car. But a car like the Williams or Trophy, is best left alone unless you know what your doing. A dedicated race team with an experienced test driver would also help.

 

[fazedesign]

If you change the springs you change the dynamics of the dampers too. Ive never seen the point of changing only the springs in a car unless it has an inherent problem and needs them changed. People do this on the williams. I just dont see the point. Everything drops out of equilibrium. The springs and dampers are in a constant state of dynamics, and changing one parameter is pointless without considering all the other parameters.

IMO changing springs requires consideration for changing, dampers (bump and rebound), tyres, suspension settings (camber, toe, caster etc). Ie you change one thing, you effect everything.

Its too simplistic to expect 'improvements' from changing a spring. Of course some manufacturers do mess up (or not bother) the setting up of a car. Some cases a quick spring change can improve the car. But a car like the Williams or Trophy, is best left alone unless you know what your doing. A dedicated race team with an experienced test driver would also help.

Spot on KS (never thought i'd say that, lol!)

Changing springs in isolation is not the way to go forward with performance suspension.

 

[SteveC]

TBH the car handles great the way it is, it is already running Eibach sportlines front and rear anyway, and from my expereince both using Eibach and been a seller of there products, i would choose Eibach over any other brand on the market.

Granted dropping the car 20mm will make it look better, but Sachs have taken alot of time and effort to get the Clio set up and I for one wont be changing the set up of the car.

 

[Nik]

Some interesting comments, I thought it would be interesting to see what people thought of the idea.

Although I'd quite like the 20mm drop, I'd agree with exactly what Stromba says.

I can also vouch for the lifespan of the shocks issue. I fitted Eibach Pro springs on the standard shocks on my 172. Although they were great and improved the handling, after they'd been on the car for 12 months with a few trackdays, the rear shocks had gone. The rear of the car became very unstable, and i'm sure the fronts would have soon followed. Granted the Trophy shocks are going to be of a higher quality but changing to shorter springs would almost certainly reduce their overall life.

Would be quite interesting to try them out and see how the handling is effected, but i don't think i'd want them on long term.

 

[fazedesign]

Spax are also at the lower end of the suspension market. I would be interesting to see how "equal" the springs are comapred to the Eibachs.

It can be quite surprising how much spring stiffness can vary for a given spec - some manufacturers have a much more relaxed tolernaces than others....

 

[oliie]

Hang on - didn't we all pay a premium for our cars because of the suspension that it comes fitted standard with?

Otherwise I would have bought a Full Fat and fitted PSS9's to it...

Can only see cosmetic reasons as a reason to change to lower springs. It will not do any favours to the CV joints either...

Cheers
O.

 

[SteveC]

As Nik said even using one of the best springs on the market, the standard shocks on the car, are having alot more stress put on to them, mainly due to the fact that the piston is made to sit 20mm higher in the strut and there for when the car on std springs would hit the bump stop a car lowered 20mm will hit the top of the strut first before the bump stops work efficently.

I have driven many lowered cars and I feel the only way you can improve on standard is to go for a full blown fully adjustable coil over kit, but to get the best out of that you would have to be a serious track dayer to get you moneys worth out of the kit.

At £1500 for the shocks on the Trophy not sure i would risk putting lowering springs on there only for them to fail after 12 months.

 

[OliS]

Speaking from previous experience Spax make crap products, had problems with leaky shocks and then when one of the front springs broke, enough was enough! Would never buy Spax again! :evil:

I agree with most of the posts on this subject, that the suspension has been set up just so by Renault, it would be madness to put these springs on. It may look lower, but I doubt it would handle as well.

 

[George K]

Agree with all that KS said - although i would suspect that a spring change, say + 15% which would still be within the damping range. The other problem is that lowering the car without fully understanding the geometry will cause different movements in the roll centres, front and rear. The rc on a strut set-up moves more in relation to ride height than it does for the torsion beam rear end. This may not always be an issue but certainly is not likely to have been thought about by Spax.
The issue of rate matching of individual springs is absolutley right and is why so may people in motor racing use Eibach, which also do not go 'off' over a period of time.

 

[fazedesign]

Just adding to what I said earlier - I would not modify the suspension on my car unless I could put on some subtantially better components, the calibre on Ohlins or similar.

In fact, I i'm not going to think about modifying my car at all, unless I start suddenly earning a whole heap more than I do now!!

 

[matt the cat]

If you change the springs you change the dynamics of the dampers too. Ive never seen the point of changing only the springs in a car unless it has an inherent problem and needs them changed. People do this on the williams. I just dont see the point. Everything drops out of equilibrium. The springs and dampers are in a constant state of dynamics, and changing one parameter is pointless without considering all the other parameters.

IMO changing springs requires consideration for changing, dampers (bump and rebound), tyres, suspension settings (camber, toe, caster etc). Ie you change one thing, you effect everything.

Its too simplistic to expect 'improvements' from changing a spring. Of course some manufacturers do mess up (or not bother) the setting up of a car. Some cases a quick spring change can improve the car. But a car like the Williams or Trophy, is best left alone unless you know what your doing. A dedicated race team with an experienced test driver would also help.

I agree with the overall point of KS, however some of the terminoligy is incorrect. ie if the suspension wasn't in a state of equilibrium then the car would resting on its bump stops or busting out of the damper - a state of 'equilibrium' in applied engineering is when opposing forces are equal and therefore no movement would be evident. ( I'm a chartered mech eng before you start)

All other comments ok though

Another thing is i cant really fault the handling of the trophy but i thinks it would 'look' more appealing a bit lower.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Its interesting that one of the dictionary definitions of equilibrium is poise. I dont think anyone could think of a better word to decribe a well set up car.

 

[matt the cat]

true, i'm just turning the tables for once and playing at being pedantic. come on stromby was only playing!

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Ok ill let you off then 8)

 

[Nik]

it is already running Eibach sportlines front and rear anyway

Do we know this is definitely true?

I've just never actually seen what the springs are officially stated anywhere, would be good to have it confirmed.

 

[y0z2a]

what colour are they - if they are red and say eibach on the coils, they are sportlines.

;-)

and I wouln't change them as they are an awesome spring with non standard dampers like you guys have.

/y0z