The king is dead long live the king

[mr StinKa gob]

Ive always thought torque steer is more to do with tyres and chassis. Some tyres seem to induce it alot. I think a car with torque steer is not necessarily to do with power. The RS is supposed to have a great front end in terms of its change of direction. I think with all that power through the same wheels and a stiff set up the torque steer is inevitable.

 

[OliS]

Torque steer is a result of different loads going through the driveshafts at the same time, generating different steering forces across the same axle. So tyres, wheel offset etc can affect this. I believe that most stabilty control systems work by reducing the power or applying the brakes to the driven wheels, so yes I think that the torque steer will be more noticeable if you don't have stability control.

I'm not an engineer or a techie so no-one flame me if some of my info is wrong!

 

[amm]

LOL, its the same class. You can split hairs, but a hatch back is a hatch back. Same size, same price.

I noticed an argument on cliosport about the meganee 225 v the clio 172. I drove a meganee 225 the other day and its serisously quicker than any clio sport ive been in.

The Focus ST looks to be even quicker. I cant wait to test one either. Plus he turb means cheap tuning to stupid speeds.

The new clio will need 220 bhp to be able to keep up, which means they have to fit the megane lump in it.

the focus st may look quicker but on the top gear track the new focus lap was 1-34.9 but the clio 182 time was 1-33.8 and if the renault are telling the truth the trophy is 1 second a lap quicker so that would be a 1-32.8

 

[OliS]

The fact is that the Renaultsport Clio's punch above their weight, the Clio is a small hatchback and the Focus is a family hatchback, if they were the same class of car then Ford would not bother having both the Fiesta and Focus in their model line up.

Would love to see the Trophy put through it's paces on the Top Gear and Fifth Gear test tracks, reckon it would do us proud!

 

[OliS]

Anyway, being a second slower than the Clio around TG's test track is actually quite a poor performance from the Focus, after all it does have 50bhp and nearly 100 ft/lbs more than the Trophy.

 

[Luke335]

Not everyone is a fan of the Focus ST it seems!

http://www.itv-motoring.com/launches/ford/7535.asp


Quotes

the ST is quick in a straight line and more impressive in terms of comfort than of handling ability on corners.

In a high-performance situation it's not particularly responsive - you have to tell it what you want it to do very gently and wait for it to do it. If you try hustling the car it just gets confused and collapses in a fit of wheelspin or tyre scrub; fingertip use of the major controls (all of which seem to add a layer of marshmallow between you and whatever it is you're trying to control) is an absolute must.

Even when you coax the car through corners, the dominant characteristic is understeer


Long live the king! :wink:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

And according to Clarkson talking about the drive train on the 182....

'...but it wont matter because the thing will have fallen apart long before it makes you deaf and mad'

or talking about the boot

'...you wouldnt find carpet like that in a student bedsit'

and to sum it up

'you get the feeling this isnt a quality product'

 

[Luke335]

I don't think any of us thought we were buying a high quality product. Its a 13K car!

The boot carpet comment is hardly relevant!

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Well you cant say on one hand the ST is more expensive, yet on the other hand its ok for the 182 to fall apart when you sneeze. You pay more you get a better car. Take your choice.

 

[Luke335]

I think you can forgive some things when the car is a few thousand cheaper. A more expensive car SHOULD be better built because they have more money to spend on the parts that go into it. Thats PARTLY what people pay for. I know its not that simple though.

Anyway, the quotes I used were regarding handling not quality or price. I don't think the best hot hatch needs to be the best built.

Just my opinion!

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Best hot hatch encompasses everything.

Build quality, speed, comfort, price, availability, exclusiveness.

Trouble for the 182 is that when the Williams was built other hot hatches had no better build quality. The Williams was good for its day. Renault has gone nowhere with that quality and so whereas the Williams next to a pug 205 is well built, a 182 next to a focus ST is very poorly built.

 

[amm]

i disagree as i have had a focus and after 4 months it had to have 2 doors replace dut to carosion and it had moor ratels than a ratel snake
and lets not forget that evo mag has called the trophy the best hot hatch ever :wink:

 

[Tomx]

Stromba, have you sat in or driven a St to be able to comment on its build quality?

Ford can't even match the paint on the bumpers.

The Trophy is more exclsive than an ST will be and also a Williams.

 

[Luke335]

Sounds like you want a cruising car.

Build quality, speed, comfort, price, availability, exclusiveness.


I would have fun/handling at the top of my list.


Don't get me wrong, I like the ST. I even worked on it in the Ford design studio.

 

[Portland]

The STs a nice car, but having had the Trophy for a week, I'm even more convinced I made the right choice. But like I said, choose the car that will fit in best with your circumstances and needs. To get anywhere from where I live, I have to go via twisty B roads, so turn in is a bigger factor for me than a good stereo to keep me company on the motorway.

@ Stromba, you seem to have quoted rather selectively there, and failed to mention (paraphrasing, as I can't be @rsed watching the vid)

"If it looks cheap, it's because it is"

"You can't go faster for less"

and specifically from the his review from Times online regarding the Trophy (not the full fat)

"And boy, was I having a laugh. I loved the big, comfortable and hugely supportive seats, I loved the speed, but my most abiding memory is the way this little race-bred car arcs round corners like a mono waterskier on a millpond. I also loved the way that, when all is said and done, the Trophy is just a Clio, same easy-to-mend parts, same practicality and the same value. It’s only £15,500, for heaven’s sake.

There are only two things wrong. First, it has a very hard ride, and second, the Clio Trophy was a last hoorah before the new Clio came along. You are therefore hard pressed to find one. But if you can, go ahead and buy it. It’s a very human car in a very complicated world."

 

[mr StinKa gob]

You can go faster for less, just not on finance