Problem with camber settings.

[richy]

have to say the dampers on the trophy do look alright, not driven one yet like!!

the de-carbon are good shockers, they are the sister company to AVO iirc, and the shockers on the williams are different to valver/road cars, the clio cup(16v mk1) racers run de-carbon but different camber on front(about 4degree iirc), on my williams i went back to new std shockers with 200lb custom springs from coilovers as i didnt like them , much prefer std for both track and road!

while were on camber etc this is what my williams runs on std new de-carbon shockers and custom springs(200lb std height)

camber - n/s/f is -1.08
o/s/f is -1.09

toe - 0.19 total toe

camber - n/s/r is -0.53
o/s/r is -0.56

toe - 0.05 total toe

i run this set up on track and road and tbh i find it very balanced with plenty of grip, is like to increase the front tow to -2.00 degree eventually and the back to about -1.00 degree, had alot of fun at donny and angelsey in both dry and wet!

btw also running goodyear eagle f1gsd3 195/50/15 on this set up

 

[OliS]

I was only ever joking with the comments I made about de-carbon shockers, I was just defending my Trophy!

The set up on your Williams sounds good, I can't believe how much of an improvement there is in the drive of my car now I have got the camber sorted, it really does handle so much sweeter, and the increased cornering poise from running 2.00 degrees of negative camber at the front is awesome!

 

[richy]

cool, when u trying it on track if you havent already?

as i said id like to try mine with bit more camber for track, just never got round to sorting it!

 

[OliS]

Tomorrow!

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Clio cup cars ran 3 degrees with a maximum deviation of 1'

Whereas Clio 16s Group a cars ran 2 degrees 15' on asphalt

 

[George K]

Stromba, I hate to nit pick with you, but I have the Cup Challenge workshop manual in front of me:
Front:Camber 3.40' (no advised +/-), but can be adjusted by 14-16 mm calibrated screw (strut lower attaching screw). Toe out combined 0.0 +/-1mm = approx 10'. Castor 3.30' +/- 30'

Rear: Camber 3.30' +/- 30'. Toe in 2mm = approx 18'.

 

[richy]

George K is there a book number etc for that book so i can se if i can get hold of any?

 

[George K]

Richy, I went onto the Renault website, then onto the section about the Challenge series, then, if I recall correctly, found the regulations, in which there is a section listing various contacts - try the one that is something like r_sport. I just sent to them a note explaining that I am intending to hill-climb the Trophy and they were incredibly helpful. Hope you have similar luck

Regards

 

[richy]

cheers george, ive had a look and know were u mean, just need to fix acrobat reader so i can see it lol! have to say i am tempted to buy a clio 172 cup and use that for trackdays(cant afford a trophy!) but that will have to be once ive done me RTE training and get a pay rise!

 

[oliie]

Saw this on the 'expert' forum on Renault sport:

MattyMarsh asked Clio Trophy tracking settings

Hi, I've done 8000 wonderful miles in the Trophy and the handling has been superb. However, I recently had the tracking checked and adjusted, and since doing this, the car understeers way too much. I've been to another garage, but it's still not as good. I'm wondering, maybe the garages are applying the standard 182 settings, and not the Trophy settings. Can you please advise, is there a difference between the 2 vehicles, and what would the correct settings be. Many thanks Matthew


Allen Collen responds The settings are the same:Toe out 12'+or-5' Try getting it checked by your Renault dealer ideally with a simple tracking gauge, as today everyone wants to use a 4 wheel aligner and sometimes this can confuse the operator, as it can impose a centre point of the car based on the rear axle geometry which the operator then adjusts the front of the car to.

 

[George K]

Don't know where the 12' +/- 5' came from - I have a photocopy from my supplying dealer of all the front geometry and it shows toe-out 25' +/- 17'. I would agree that this sjhows a very large tolerance and will double check it at the weekend. In the meantime can any one throw some light on the apparent discrepancy.

The comment about the centre point based on the rear axle is to ensure that the rear wheels don't steer off the centre line (known as the thrust angle - which should be zero). Hopefully this should not be an issue unless the car has been shunted. This can also be checked by the traditional racing car technique of putting a string round all four wheels - I must admit that I have not bothered so far. Unless the operator is doing someting really weird this should not affect the front toe setting - can soon tell if the steeering whell is in a different position on a straight road. So it does sound as though the car had been set differently from when delivered..

 

[jezza l]

Olis where abouts are aurok?

 

[Neophyte]

... Hopefully this should not be an issue unless the car has been shunted. This can also be checked by the traditional racing car technique of putting a string round all four wheels - I must admit that I have not bothered so far..

Please could you explain said technique, if you get a chance? Tar.

 

[OliS]

Olis where abouts are aurok?

Alton in Hampshire. They were excellent, I would highly recommend them to anyone who has issues with their suspension geometry.

 

[George K]

It is hard to explain simply, and is documented in various books. However here goes;

Set the front wheels straight and then wrap a length of string tightly around the outside of all four wheels at wheel centre height. I tie it onto the exhaust pipe or towing eye. I then use 25 mm wooden blocks to space out the string, by putting one under the string on the rear edge of the back rims and on the front edge of the front rims - make sure it does not foul on any bodywork between the front and rear wheels. Then measure the gap between the string and the rim on the side opposite to where the blocks are - using digital calipers. The first job is to turn the steering wheel until the gaps are exactly the same for both front wheels. Then you measure the gaps at the front edge of the rear rims - if these are not the same, then the thrust angle is not along the central axis of the car. It the gap is 2 mm more on one side than the other, then the axis is offset by about 8.5', i.e 0.14 of a degree - this is not enought to worry about, but a difference of 8mm would be.

Obviously this does not actually measure the toe, although you can calcluate it, more easily if the track is the same front and rear. The trick is to do this after you have had the alignment set by someone reputable and then record the measurements described above so you can always re-set the front yourself. (several years ago I treated nyself to some dunlop gauges and although expensive find them invaluable - don't know if that makes me reputable or not!). BTW when doing the camber last weekend, I measured everyting very carefully and found that a turn of one flat on each track rod is very close to 12' - i.e 5 flats on each track rod gives 1.0 degrees. So as not to lose sight of my starting point I have put a small stainless jubilee clip on each track-rod and use them as a marker.

Hope this is of help - good luck. BTW this technique is invaluable on cars with adjstable rear toe - includes Subaru, Mx5, Alfa 156 etc.

 

[Neophyte]

It is hard to explain simply, and is documented in various books. However here goes;

Set the front wheels straight...

Thanks George that was very interesting. Taking time to pass on knowledge to others, what terrible behaviour :wink: