Problem with camber settings.

[mr StinKa gob]

King stromba i have only just come onto this forum having just bought a trophy I have a sagaris , a evo fq 400 and a couple of other toys and the trophy is just as enjoyable to blast around in as any. But my point is that you sound like a right ****** who probably couldnt afford a trophy anyway.

Id check your camber mate. If its out you can start a race series with OliS

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Take the **** all you want and make wild claims about your dampers being better blah blah blah, but you look pretty stupid, because at the end of the day the camber on my road williams is spot on, and yours resemebles a plate of spaghetti.

Added to that is the fact that my track car has 'proper' adjustable leda remote resevoir dampers, not the crappy non adjustable piggy back 'Fisherprice' dampers on your trophy.

Oh and to make you look more stupid Sachs will have to be oem as it supplies the original parts for the trophy from the factory.

And to add insult to injury the irony is that deCarbon invented the 'modern' damper (in 1947 i think), the same priciples that Sachs uses today.

Enjoy your well set up car...pmsl. Just make sure you book track days on ovals. I recommend Rockingham

Im sure your dampers will be a benefit to you there.

Alright lets end this here, we could pick at each others post and turn this into another 5 page slagging match or we can just agree to have different views on the qualities of the Trophy's dampers.

As you point out I was only taking the mickey, don't think there was any need to say that I was stupid, that is unless you were just taking the mickey yourself :?:

My first post was meant to illustrate the point that the trophy will have poor tolerances, it isnt an AMG mercedes. Youll have to live with it, its a renault. Renaults answer to top mounts that knocked on the 172 was to drill holes in the strut tower. Ive seen this with my own eyes. This was under warente. Dont expect them to give a shit about poor camber settings. If there arnt other people on this forum with the same settings as you i would be very suprised.

 

[OliS]

My first post was meant to illustrate the point that the trophy will have poor tolerances, it isnt an AMG mercedes. Youll have to live with it, its a renault. Renaults answer to top mounts that knocked on the 172 was to drill holes in the strut tower. Ive seen this with my own eyes. This was under warente. Dont expect them to give a **** about poor camber settings. If there arnt other people on this forum with the same settings as you i would be very suprised.

I don't think that I do have to live with my camber problem, thats why I am going to look into a solution for it, perfect camber settings are not an unachievable goal. Seeing as your camber on your Williams is spot on, have you got any advice for me? Was it already perfect when you bought the car, or have you had to work on it to get it spot on?

I know only to well about the knocking top mount problem with R'sport Clio's, it is something that I experience everyday in my Trophy. I have taken my car to Reno to get this looked at, and I didn't fancy the heavy duty solution that was on offer. This is why I will not be taking my car back there to get the camber sorted, I am going to check around and see what useful advice I can get, like the information George has posted and then make a decision about what is best. I'll get in contact with Aurok and R-Sport in Wimbledon to see if either can help.

 

[George K]

Olis, You will have seen from my post that the Renault settings are =/- 30', so unfortunately the dealer will not have any obligation - I would still get a second reading on a genuinely level floor. I am sure that Stromba would love to measure the floor if he has the right kit and it has been serviced correctly.

However the good news is that nowadays even Renault place surprisingly high Din requirements for accuracy on their tier one suppliers, and as the dampers (and most probably the springs) have come from one supplier and will generally be matched by batch, there should be only nominal variations. The crankshaft problem is well documented, but relates to different suppliers and batches.

My contact, who has carried out the changes I mentioned, went to a Challenge specialist - Colin Stancombe, in case you need another name.

Good luck.

 

[OliS]

Done a bit of calling around to see about solving this camber issue, and Aurok Ltd were able to give me advice on this and suggest a solution.

They have done camber set-ups for quite a few R'sport Clio's now, and have advised me to change the front camber to -2.00 degrees, but to leave the back alone.

Car is booked in for Thursday, so if everything goes well, I should have my new 'optimised' front suspension geometry for the Trophy's first trackday this Saturday. Aurok estimated the work, which includes the camber bolts and 4 wheel alignment, at £100 which seems pretty reasonable. I'll post back my feedback about the company and the work later on in the week.

 

[ChrisB]

Good stuff, OliS, it'll be interesting to hear what you think of the changes.

 

[matt the cat]

listen all

when i first got mine i had the toe in/out setting checked on a hunter laser alignment unit

the wheel was off centre slightly and it annoyed me.

I got a colour print out of all the settings - if anyone wants a copy then pm me and i will scan it in and mail it.

My car drive faultless so theres a starting point

Matt

 

[George K]

OliS - it would be interesting to get them to double-check the 'before' settings, which after all is what started you on this route.
Look forward to hearing how you get on.
Hope to do mine at the weekend, but work on our old house seems to keep intervening.

 

[oliie]

Here's a link to 'decode' all of this toe, camber and caster talk... http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

Cheers.
O.

 

[George K]

I hate to be a spoil sport, but the article is quite misleading in some respects as he does not allow for the fact that the contact patch centre of the tyre is normally offset laterally from the pivot point at ground level, this produces what is known as the scrub radius. Traditionally this was always positive, i.e the centre of the contact patch was outside of the pivot point; but since the early '80's first front wheel drive cars and now even some rear wheel drive cars have opted for the alternative of negative scrub radius, in an attempt to gain more stability under braking on surfaces which may only be slippery on one side of the road. (split mu). It also helps (a bit) with torque steer), but it does mean that a rearward force on a wheel will make it toe-in, the opposite to what he suggests.

The Clio will be mostl ikely to run negative scrub radius.

Also his ideas about camber going positive on bump only apply in exceptional cases outside of the normal operating range (a strut system can be the worst offender).

And as to where he gets the idea that a tyre will generate optimum grip at 0.30' negative I have no idea - the slip angle to camber force curves of most tyres will show that more is required. Perhaps in the days of cross-ply tyres (still used in some types of racing) it was correct.

 

[oliie]

Good comments George... I was after a good article to explain toe etc. but only stumbles across the one I hyperlinked. However as a 'non-techie' it is always difficult to know if the content is of a high quality/accuracy.

Cheers
O.

 

[OliS]

I got a colour print out of all the settings - if anyone wants a copy then pm me and i will scan it in and mail it.

Thanks for the offer Matt, but the camber issue with my car cannot be solved by the lads at the local tyre place as camber is non-adjustable on the Trophy. All your print out will do is show how my car should be set up, it won't solve the problem.

George - The first thing I have asked them to do is to check the settings to ensure it is not just a problem with the equipment that has given me the rogue readings. If they also find that the camber is out and needs adjusting, then I have asked them to adjust it (with camber bolts) to a good fast road setting, which they believe is -2.00 degrees. If the camber is not out, then I will just pay for the alignment and hopefully drive away with near factory settings.

 

[Neophyte]

King stromba i have only just come onto this forum having just bought a trophy I have a sagaris , a evo fq 400 and a couple of other toys and the trophy is just as enjoyable to blast around in as any. But my point is that you sound like a right ****** who probably couldnt afford a trophy anyway.

This forum really makes me laugh sometimes, which is good for my health (eg peristalsis in the intestine or some such thing after belly laughing), thank you earnestly for this.

King Stromba you always seem to near the heart of matters, fighting your corner and catching quite a chunk of leary posts. Seems a less than optimal situation to my mind for both you and other forum members. Then sometimes you make really knowledgable and very interesting posts.. To which people excuse themselves for agreeing with, not the most respectul attitude on their part perhaps.

A conundrum you is old bean...

 

[mr StinKa gob]

They say the mind is a belief engine.

Most people decide what they want to believe and then go about gathering evidence and information to back up what they believe.

I collate the evidence, then make up my opinion based on all the available data.


Because i think like this 99% of the time im right.

 

[hyb]

out of 1000%.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Per cent (PER HUNDRED)




Keep up :roll:

 

[Maverick]

Who are they and did you collate any evidence to suggest that the theory on the mind being a belief engine? No, you didn't. So I guess your just the same as evryone else.

Put the books down Stromby, shut the window with google open in it and go out. there's a whole world out there simply full of people you can preach your contradictive bollocks to. lol.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

It was Roger Penrose, the eminent physicist and theorist, that first came up with the idea that the human brain works on the priciple of a belief engine. There is much evidence that at least in lower consious states this theory holds water.

I dont need to cut an paste as my IQ is well over 140 and i am a highly eductaed man. But thatnks for the advice.

 

[Maverick]

Bloody hell, it took you less than an hour to google for his name.. I'm impressed.

And I can't believe you just told me your IQ. PMSL!!! A pigeon chested Strombasaurus is usually much harder to catch!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I take it there are no questions about fitting headunits in cars in the latest issue of mensa monthly...... :lol: :lol:

Forgive me, I didn't realise I was talking to a 'genius'..... :roll: and besides my IQ is considerably higher than yours.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

If im not mistaken i did not tell you my IQ. I mearly said it was over 140. Keep up.

My farther is a member of mensa (or was), but it never turned me on really. Im not into secret societies. Ill leave that to people like your good self. Makes you feel more important in the grand scheme of things.

A genius is not defined by perfection, but originality, the opening on new frontiers. Google that and see if you can tell me who said it.



loser :wink: