Trophy or 197
Very interesting article in June's Performance Tuner about a 197 on KW Variant 2 Coil-overs; even if that is not the route to go, it gives an idea of waht to expect from the R27 suspensi9n package.
Still vdoes not resolve the wieght problem though
Still vdoes not resolve the wieght problem though
1 thing: go and read evo magazines article on Clio Trophy vs BMW M6 and the car of the year 2005 i think it was.
That decided it for me. Read it and you will realise what is so special about the trophy from the best motoring magazine about.
That decided it for me. Read it and you will realise what is so special about the trophy from the best motoring magazine about.
Matt X2C said:
When i bought mine last year the owner gave several editions of evo & yes very interestig reading.
personally i think it depends on intended use. For me if you never intend to take it on track or throttle the pant of it I'd seriously consider an R27, i certainly wouldnt do the standard 197....
I've driven all 3 (Trophy, 197 & R27) and in terms of pure (raw) driving fun the trophy has the new car absolutely licked. But as a comfy 'baby' mile cruncher the R27 would be a very good car. Having said that if that is your idea i.e. a comfy evryday day car that can show most things up then consider the Meggy R26. It's not as dynamic as the Troph but as an everyday car to take kids in, do the shopping, visit relatives 100 miles away etc and still be able to embarass the max power lot that would be my choice.
The 197's (whichever flavour) weigh too much. Until Reno realise this and something about it, no amount of chassis fettling or suspension improvements will put it into the same league as the Trophy.
I've driven all 3 (Trophy, 197 & R27) and in terms of pure (raw) driving fun the trophy has the new car absolutely licked. But as a comfy 'baby' mile cruncher the R27 would be a very good car. Having said that if that is your idea i.e. a comfy evryday day car that can show most things up then consider the Meggy R26. It's not as dynamic as the Troph but as an everyday car to take kids in, do the shopping, visit relatives 100 miles away etc and still be able to embarass the max power lot that would be my choice.
The 197's (whichever flavour) weigh too much. Until Reno realise this and something about it, no amount of chassis fettling or suspension improvements will put it into the same league as the Trophy.
Cue said:
good post cue.
in regards to the above, its not just renault, all hot hatches these days, the 197 is among the lightest...astra vxr, focus st, alfa 147, golf r32 all weight in at between 1300-1400kg...theoretically taking them out of the hot hatch league and into the evo league where of course they get eaten alive and destroyed.
as you say cue, no amount of fettling with suspension can supstitute for weight. A 1400kg hatch with over 200bhp is never going to be as chuckable or enjoyable as a hatch near on 200bhp and just over a tonne. Which is why for the forseeable future the trophy has nothing to worry about!
G
Guest
Get the Trophy or a Megane R26.
The Trophy does lightweight, thrash-the-nuts-off-it well, the Megane will be fast and comfortable. The 197 seems stuck in the middle somewhere.
The Trophy does lightweight, thrash-the-nuts-off-it well, the Megane will be fast and comfortable. The 197 seems stuck in the middle somewhere.
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Im afraid guys i am defecting towards the 197 after much research the 197b insurance group is only 15 compared with 17 on the rophy. Which means the insurance is £500 cheaper at £2,700. Also as i am taking out a loan for the car the extra 1500 for a 197 getrs balanced out by the cheaper insurance over 3 years. Furtthermore i will end up with a year younger car, which is also the newer model. Furthermore i do very low milage a year at around 6000 so i can buy a 197 with quite alot of miles now but when i sell i will have balanced it out. Also i would like the extra luxuries. The trophy is a fantastic car but i thinkt eh 197 will be more suited for myself.
Does anyone know if there are any forums for the 197 would like to do a bit more research,
Cheers guys
Greg
P.s anyone want a c2 1.1 design with citroen sport bodkit colour coded mirrors and 17" Kahn alloys?
Does anyone know if there are any forums for the 197 would like to do a bit more research,
Cheers guys
Greg
P.s anyone want a c2 1.1 design with citroen sport bodkit colour coded mirrors and 17" Kahn alloys?
greg131187 said:
check out the residuals on the Trophy. then compare it to a 197.... 197's have plummetted lots in value already... i know because i have kept a close eye on 182, Trophy and 197 prices over the last few months as both myself and GF are looking at changing cars.
Personally speaking, as impressed as I have been with the 5 test drives I have taken in 197s, my money would still remain on a Trophy. (offtopic) Big clue to everyone who's wondering what car i am buying next - it's not a 197 :wink:
And as with Day, i'd agree that 2700 a year on insurance is crazy... as is jumping straight from a 1.1 powered matchbox to a 2.0 hot hatch IMO
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the 197 will never drop below the price of the trophy just doesnt seem to make sense. I do little milage so i plan to buy a 197 with high milage so when i sell i will have balanced it out.
Went out on a test drive today and i loved it so much fun and the steering is so repsonsive, i do agree it has ot be worked hard though to get the power, didnt really have much until over 4000rmp. I liked the driving controls thought the steering wheel and the pedals all felt very nice.
I havnt driven a 182 but the 197 does feel nicer in my opinion. The insurance is cheeper which in my opinion is the biggest thing.
Greg
Went out on a test drive today and i loved it so much fun and the steering is so repsonsive, i do agree it has ot be worked hard though to get the power, didnt really have much until over 4000rmp. I liked the driving controls thought the steering wheel and the pedals all felt very nice.
I havnt driven a 182 but the 197 does feel nicer in my opinion. The insurance is cheeper which in my opinion is the biggest thing.
Greg
greg131187 said:
without wanting to seem like i'm ripping you to shreds... how can you form that judgement?
to say a 197 feels nicer than a 182 you need to have driven a 182 as well.
don't just go off of what people have said in the press or on different forums.....
Trophy.
Gareth said:
Just say it, MUPPET.
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Now now lads, lets keep it civil 
No offence Greg but what you are saying makes very little sense at all - especially your comment about 'I havnt driven a 182 but the 197 does feel nicer in my opinion' - how can you form a judgement if you've never driven a 182 or a Trophy? If you say that comment was regarding cabin feel and quality of the 197 compared to the 182 then to be honest, neither are that great in reality and if build quality, comfort, and toys are important then maybe you should actually be looking outwith the Renault range.
You also make the comment about the steering in the 197 being 'so responsive' - if you had anything to compare it to other than your 1.1 C2 or had done your homework and read what the motoring press have to say about the 197 then you'd know that the steering is seen as the weak link, everyone just finds it too light, overly sensitive and with no real feedback.
I think the bottom line is that whatever you test drove first after going from your 1.2 C2 was going to feel great - you really need to drive all three cars - 182, Trophy, 197 - and then make a judgement in my opinion. I'd also be trying get good long test drives in each, that way you can really start to appreciate the differences between each car and you can get a feel for the steering, engine, handling, brakes etc.
However, if as you say in your last sentence cheap insurance is 'the biggest thing' then why not think about going for a Chevrolet Matiz?
No offence Greg but what you are saying makes very little sense at all - especially your comment about 'I havnt driven a 182 but the 197 does feel nicer in my opinion' - how can you form a judgement if you've never driven a 182 or a Trophy? If you say that comment was regarding cabin feel and quality of the 197 compared to the 182 then to be honest, neither are that great in reality and if build quality, comfort, and toys are important then maybe you should actually be looking outwith the Renault range.
You also make the comment about the steering in the 197 being 'so responsive' - if you had anything to compare it to other than your 1.1 C2 or had done your homework and read what the motoring press have to say about the 197 then you'd know that the steering is seen as the weak link, everyone just finds it too light, overly sensitive and with no real feedback.
I think the bottom line is that whatever you test drove first after going from your 1.2 C2 was going to feel great - you really need to drive all three cars - 182, Trophy, 197 - and then make a judgement in my opinion. I'd also be trying get good long test drives in each, that way you can really start to appreciate the differences between each car and you can get a feel for the steering, engine, handling, brakes etc.
However, if as you say in your last sentence cheap insurance is 'the biggest thing' then why not think about going for a Chevrolet Matiz?
I was going to add my penny's worth here but there seems very little point, you've already made up your mind without even driving a 182 :!:
Why ask the question if you're not going to listen? I've never driven a 197 so I can't comment, I just think it's a great ugly lump.
Why ask the question if you're not going to listen? I've never driven a 197 so I can't comment, I just think it's a great ugly lump.
I d just like to say go try a megane trophy too. But test drive before you post an opinion!
Think I may purchase one next year, get it chipped and manifold matched looking at 260 brake, 260 pound of torque. Plus my best mate hates them so that will pee him right off!!
Think I may purchase one next year, get it chipped and manifold matched looking at 260 brake, 260 pound of torque. Plus my best mate hates them so that will pee him right off!!