Those awesome dampers!!

[roblad]

Just been to put some more miles on No:479

I know these are suposed to be great track cars (and I will hopefully find out next year) but WOW, this thing handles bumpy backroads like a fully prepped rally car. 8)

The wheel and body control are excellent! for such a small car the handling and poise are truly remarkable.

can't wait to put some more miles on so I can start exploiting the engine a bit more. Not running in the car too soft, I just make sure its fully warmed up .

Just hope these expensive dampers don't wear out too soon :wink:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Just out of interest what other cars have you owned?

Does anyone here actually know how a damper works? Doesnt sound like it


A damper is a tube filled with a fluid and a piston that converts movement energy (kinetic energy) to heat energy (thermal energy). So as you hit a bump the movement of the suspension is 'damped' out and reduced and in the process heat is produced. The more bumps you go over the more movement goes through it and the more it heats up. As it gets hot the fluid within it loses its properties and its 'damping' properties are reduced.

All a resevoir damper does is has more fluid (suprisingly in a resevoir, hence the name). More fluid allows the damper to 'take' more abuse before the thermal instability effects its properties. Hence the reason its fitted to race cars but generally not road cars :roll:

Its not a magically better damper. It just prolongs the time it takes to cause damper fade. If you replaced the resevoir damper with a normal damper of equal damping properties it would do just as good a job.

The resevoir damper is NOT the reason the Trophy handles like it does. That is simply due to set up.

But i guess we all know this?

 

[amm]

Just out of interest what other cars have you owned?

Does anyone here actually know how a damper works? Doesnt sound like it


A damper is a tube filled with a fluid and a piston that converts movement energy (kinetic energy) to heat energy (thermal energy). So as you hit a bump the movement of the suspension is 'damped' out and reduced and in the process heat is produced. The more bumps you go over the more movement goes through it and the more it heats up. As it gets hot the fluid within it loses its properties and its 'damping' properties are reduced.

All a resevoir damper does is has more fluid (suprisingly in a resevoir, hence the name). More fluid allows the damper to 'take' more abuse before the thermal instability effects its properties. Hence the reason its fitted to race cars but generally not road cars :roll:

Its not a magically better damper. It just prolongs the time it takes to cause damper fade. If you replaced the resevoir damper with a normal damper of equal damping properties it would do just as good a job.

The resevoir damper is NOT the reason the Trophy handles like it does. That is simply due to set up.

But i guess we all know this?

yes but the shaft on the damper is 10 mm thiker than the normal one fited to the 182 this mens that there is les sideways movement there for the cars traking stays the same for longer and as the traking is at the same pont it meens the car is mutch more stable in the corners also the dampers have hydrolic bump stops in sted of solid ones and also the frunt end is 10 mm lower than standard

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Well you shouldnt need a bump stop unless your planning on taking some hump back bridges at full tilt.

If your talking about camber compliance i think that is a facet more of stiff dampers rather than resevoir dampers per se. Ie the stiff the damper / spring set up the better the camber compliance and the less you wear the edges of your tyres. £30 camber bolts will sort this

In short, all of the benefits of the damper are a result of less fade. Ie the dampers are more consistent over a 25 lap race. Whats that? You dont compete in 25 lap races. Ahhh, normal dampers will do just fine then :roll:

 

[Tomx]

Can't understand why you come on a Trophy forum and just try to slag the car off to Trophy owners. At the end of the day it is a better car than a williams.

 

[hyb]

lol yeh :/

It's like some annoying bloke with anorak and 5" glasses poking his nose in at your local pub while your talking to your mates.

"i'll have you know that in fact the sprognugget is actually 24mm thinner then the previous version therefore it is infact rubbish"

After all though, Stromba does know an awfull lot more then all the years of development at Renault.

i wonder if king stromba is short for jealous nobbin

 

[hyb]

Well you shouldnt need a bump stop unless your planning on taking some hump back bridges at full tilt.

If your talking about camber compliance i think that is a facet more of stiff dampers rather than resevoir dampers per se. Ie the stiff the damper / spring set up the better the camber compliance and the less you wear the edges of your tyres. £30 camber bolts will sort this

In short, all of the benefits of the damper are a result of less fade. Ie the dampers are more consistent over a 25 lap race. Whats that? You dont compete in 25 lap races. Ahhh, normal dampers will do just fine then :roll:

Ok...so why is the trophy faster per lap then the normal 182 cup? there's nothing different apart from the dampers so they are doing something. Or are you gonna now tell me it's the colour

 

[jezza l]

yeh the poor lad was just saying he loves the car and he loves the way it handles

 

[ChrisB]

In fairness to 'stromba, although his posts often seem "anti" whatever is being discussed, he at least is trying to make sure people are clear about what they are saying.
So does the fact the dampers have reservoirs improve the handling ? Maybe not.
Are these particular dampers there to help improve handling in corners, and if so, do they do their job ? Owners and press think so.

 

[ChrisB]

Although in fairness to roblad too, he didn't actually say anything about reservoir dampers, just that the ones on the Trophy expensive.

Don't worry though, they are covered by the warranty.

Having said that, if you race the car and get through dampers on a regular basis, I doubt the same dealer will willingly keep changing them under warranty.
How thorough is the dealer network's information? Could one dealer tell if you had had the same work done before at another dealer ? I know with BMW all that kind of info is shared nationally, but don't know if Renault do this. Anyone ?

 

[mr StinKa gob]

I think my replies have been informative and educational. Im not arguing the Trophy isnt a great car. Ive said it before and ill say it again, if i diodnt have 2 of the best condition Clio Williams' in the country id consider one.

However. Irrespective of how good it is, imo its not an excuse to regurgitate what some magazine said without thinking about what your saying.

Just because some uneducated journo says resevoir damper could save the world doesnt mean its true. Lets think for ourselves and maybe we will understand a little more about our cars, so that we can enjoy them more.

Of course if anyone disagrees with me an informed reply would be favoured over personal attacks, but then what can i expect from forums.

Incidently a forum is a place to discuss something. Discussions tend to have opposing opinions and hence not everyone agrees. Are you getting the hang of this yet? :roll:


So to recap so im not misquoted again - Trophy great car, me likes, resevoir dampers not necessary for great handling 8)

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Can't understand why you come on a Trophy forum and just try to slag the car off to Trophy owners. At the end of the day it is a better car than a williams.

Have you ever driven a new completely standard Williams? I havnt driven a Trophy so i dont make rash comments on whetehr it is 'better' than other cars.

The Trophy certainly isnt a better car than a Williams if you have need for a rear suit carrier :wink:

 

[old_man_trophy]

I had one fitted before I took delivery!!! How old and sad am I???

lol

 

[fazedesign]

The features of the Sachs dampers fitted to the Trophy do offer a benefit over the conventional type. As has been mentioned the increased volume will reduce temperature effects, and the larger damper rod improves the stiffness of the damper (and therefore also maintains the position of the contact patch closer to the designed theoretical position)

Whether these add up to a useful improvement during conventional driving I don't know - I'd be inclined to say they do, although I wouldn't claim to be a sensitive enough driver to be able to detect the difference. At the end of the day the dampers are more advanced than conventionally fitted and should realise a performance improvement.

As an aside - I would say that the revised rates of the Trophy shocks would be responsible for the majority of any performance improvement over the cup. The magnitutde of these improvements? I think only the Renaultsport engineers would know for sure...

 

[Day]

If Stromba wasn't here this thread would contain only 3 posts...

 

[mr StinKa gob]

I had one fitted before I took delivery!!! How old and sad am I???

lol

Seriously? :shock:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

The features of the Sachs dampers fitted to the Trophy do offer a benefit over the conventional type. As has been mentioned the increased volume will reduce temperature effects, and the larger damper rod improves the stiffness of the damper (and therefore also maintains the position of the contact patch closer to the designed theoretical position)

Whether these add up to a useful improvement during conventional driving I don't know - I'd be inclined to say they do, although I wouldn't claim to be a sensitive enough driver to be able to detect the difference. At the end of the day the dampers are more advanced than conventionally fitted and should realise a performance improvement.

As an aside - I would say that the revised rates of the Trophy shocks would be responsible for the majority of any performance improvement over the cup. The magnitutde of these improvements? I think only the Renaultsport engineers would know for sure...

But could you not get the same effect with a conventional damper?

A stiffer conventional damper would:

Increase camber compliance (contact patch)
Improve turn in
Reduce body roll

All the things the Trophy dampers do, with the exception of the heat protection the resevoir offers. So the question has to be, do we need that fade resistance?

My answer to this is that on track you will enduce brake fade along time before any issues with the dampers. So no they are not needed. Renault sport could simply have used a thicker stiffer conventional damper to achieve the same effect.

 

[Nik]

Stromba, you do have some good points to make, and obviously have technical knowledge on the stuff you talk about. I'd also rather have some constructive discussion on here than a forum of everyone licking each others Trophy owning arses all the time, but there is a limit.

The problem some people have with you on here is that you seem to take every opportunity to discredit what someone has said about the Trophy, and often taking the thread off topic in order to do so.

You were the one who has just been saying in another thread how good handling is subjective, yet the moment this guy comes on here and says what he thinks about the handling, you take it as yet another opportunity to tell us all that he's wrong. He never mentioned the remote reservior in his post at all, he just said the dampers made the car handle really well, which they do. Whether thats down to the reservior or not or if its overkill or not is irrellevant in this thread, you've already expressed your (perfectly valid) opinion on that elsewhere.

This is a discussion forum after all and you're entitled to your opinion, and i'm not going to stop that. Alot of the time I agree with most of what you're trying to say, I just think you'd do yourself a lot of favours if you changed the record every now and again, and posted something positive.

 

[hyb]

here here

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Nik,

The Clio Williams is a better car than the valver over all. Now the Williams has a stiffer damper. To say that the Williams is a better car because it has a stiffer damper is rediculous. Its a better car because it was improved a small amount in a number of key areas.

The Trophy is the same. Its not a better car that other mk2's because of the dampers. Its a better car because of set up, and small changes in a number of areas. No one talks about 'oh those magic wheels'. Unsprung weight is the first thing any race team tries to reduce. They probably go alot further to making the car more driveable than the dampers.

People going on about how the damper makes the car discredits the car as a whole. If someone said the dampers on the Williams were magically better than valver ones theyd be wrong and get the same response from me.

(trophysmall)