Orbisoud story continues and other ramblings..

[Neophyte]

I look forward to the dyno results - my wallet is already quaking in fear. So much for my intentions of keeping it standard! :roll: :wink:

:lol: quaking wallet..
I also was in the 'no major mods' camp for a while, but then moved to the 'if I do it I do it properly' camp; the wallet does take some abuse! But I am not feeling short changed, if that is any help and I am tight fisted bean counter :wink:

As to figures I will post those up asap. I will try to upload any paperwork/graphs if I get any ('ejut' IT skills allowing).
Don't really have any idea of what to expect in terms of BHP or torque. I just know it is much improved Feels like it has been on a diet :twisted:
Anyone venture an educated estimate of what I ought to be expecting? Measured at the wheels a standard 182 is somwhere between 140-150 BHP isn't? So I ought to expect maybe another 10 little ponies I would guess. But that is a figure in the air estimate..

 

[drexel]

Cant wait to see what gains you have made!

 

[OliS]

Anyone venture an educated estimate of what I ought to be expecting? Measured at the wheels a standard 182 is somwhere between 140-150 BHP isn't? So I ought to expect maybe another 10 little ponies I would guess. But that is a figure in the air estimate..

My standard Trophy made 146 bhp/130 ft/lbs at the fly at the Janspeed rolling road day Nik organised last year - Nik made 151 bhp/132 ft/lbs with a remap and cat back exhaust iirc. I would like to think that you will clear 155 bhp/135 ft/lbs due to you having the sports cat, it will be very interesting to see what your Trophy makes.

Are there any std 182/Trophy's going? it would be good to know what they are making, so that we can make a decent comparison against the Janspeed day as people say that each rolling road will produce different figures...

 

[Neophyte]

My standard Trophy made 146 bhp/130 ft/lbs at the fly..

I thought that would be the figure at the wheels? Or am I getting confused (probably)

There are other Tomato cars in attendance, no idea as to their state of fettling though, will do some investigation and report back..

 

[OliS]

No, it's me that's getting confused, those are at the wheel figures!

Perhaps it's time I went to bed...

 

[Steve]

Anyone venture an educated estimate of what I ought to be expecting? Measured at the wheels a standard 182 is somwhere between 140-150 BHP isn't? So I ought to expect maybe another 10 little ponies I would guess. But that is a figure in the air estimate..

My standard Trophy made 146 bhp/130 ft/lbs at the fly at the Janspeed rolling road day Nik organised last year - Nik made 151 bhp/132 ft/lbs with a remap and cat back exhaust iirc. I would like to think that you will clear 155 bhp/135 ft/lbs due to you having the sports cat, it will be very interesting to see what your Trophy makes.

Are there any std 182/Trophy's going? it would be good to know what they are making, so that we can make a decent comparison against the Janspeed day as people say that each rolling road will produce different figures...

Yes, those are at wheel figures and it looks like the comment I read on Pistonheads once about RR readings being less valuable than the paper they're printed on is true, it depends where you get it done and the conditions on the day blah blah blah. But, not that it's worth much the standard Trophy's looked to be putting out quite a bit less than the manfacturer's claims.

Still, who cares? They weigh fook all and still fly out of corners like shit off a shovel, embarrasing cars with more power and a lot more cost, whilst being more fun.

 

[Neophyte]

Yes, those are at wheel figures and it looks like the comment I read on Pistonheads once about RR readings being less valuable than the paper they're printed on is true, it depends where you get it done and the conditions on the day blah blah blah. But, not that it's worth much the standard Trophy's looked to be putting out quite a bit less than the manfacturer's claims.

Still, who cares? They weigh fook all and still fly out of corners like **** off a shovel, embarrasing cars with more power and a lot more cost, whilst being more fun.

The results were a bit less than expected weren't they. But as you say, if it makes you smile then there isn't an issue.
I recorded 169BHP (adjusted to 'at crank') but that is more than enough, particularly for someone with my ability Torque was 150 by the way for reference
Steve I thought the comment our ECU runs slightly rich was interesting, but getting it sorted for 5BHP doesn't seem worth it.
My car not having been thrashed from day one may have had some effect, but don't know for sure.
Nice to meet you today SteveG and you 7MAT
Just thinking whether I can convince SWMBO a massive induction kit (meaning battery moves to the boot!) and a decat is the way forward :wink:

 

[OliS]

At the wheels figures are the only ones that count really, as any calculation used to try and guess what the drivetrain losses are liable to be inaccurate. Unless the engine is removed from the car and dyno'd itself, then you won't ever really know what the flywheel figure is.

What did you make at the wheels Neo, and what did the std 182's make at the wheels? That's the real way to see how effective your mods have been...

 

[7MAT]

At the wheels figures are the only ones that count really, as any calculation used to try and guess what the drivetrain losses are liable to be inaccurate. Unless the engine is removed from the car and dyno'd itself, then you won't ever really know what the flywheel figure is.

What did you make at the wheels Neo, and what did the std 182's make at the wheels? That's the real way to see how effective your mods have been...

There was one standard 182 (20K on the clock) which recorded 170hp, which I reckon is about 140hp at the wheels.

 

[hoolio]

Pretty depressing weekend really, trophys for £9500, we all seem to have lost a few horses and more important one of the kittens has gone missing

 

[Neophyte]

At the wheels figures are the only ones that count really, as any calculation used to try and guess what the drivetrain losses are liable to be inaccurate. Unless the engine is removed from the car and dyno'd itself, then you won't ever really know what the flywheel figure is.

What did you make at the wheels Neo, and what did the std 182's make at the wheels? That's the real way to see how effective your mods have been...

140 Olis. More than enough for me/my talents..

 

[OliS]

At the wheels figures are the only ones that count really, as any calculation used to try and guess what the drivetrain losses are liable to be inaccurate. Unless the engine is removed from the car and dyno'd itself, then you won't ever really know what the flywheel figure is.

What did you make at the wheels Neo, and what did the std 182's make at the wheels? That's the real way to see how effective your mods have been...

140 Olis. More than enough for me/my talents..

Apologies if my previous post was a bit aggressive, I was just interested to see what the std 182's made on the day.

With hindsight, the figures of other cars don't really matter. The only way to truly tell how effective the mods have been is by testing before and after figures for the same vehcile, which in this case could not be done.

There are numerous resons why cars can produce results that differ from what was expected. Fuel grades, and indeed batch quality, tyre pressures and condition can affect the output on a rolling road - which could expalin why you and Steve produced similar results to the std 182, and indeed why you and Steve produced similar results to each other, despite the fact that you have a full exhaust system. If Steve was running better quality fuel, or if his tyres were in optimum shape for a rolling road then he would produce more pawer than yourself purely on these variables alone.

Your car could have only made 130 bhp at the wheels if you did not have the mods done, and although the 130 is less than it should have made, there are variables that can impact the results of a rolling road.

Rolling roads are fine for the tuning of cars, for example when an ECU is being mapped, to get before and after results, however the results they return themselves are not what counts, it's the differences between the results that are important.

Finally, it does appear that this particuar rolling road was producing very low figures, pointing to the fact that it may not have been calibrated properly, therefore all if these figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

At the end of the day I am still going to get a remap and an exhaust system, as you and Steve have both pointed out, yours cars felt much improved from getting the work done, and that is the main thing.

 

[Steve]

At the wheels figures are the only ones that count really, as any calculation used to try and guess what the drivetrain losses are liable to be inaccurate. Unless the engine is removed from the car and dyno'd itself, then you won't ever really know what the flywheel figure is.

What did you make at the wheels Neo, and what did the std 182's make at the wheels? That's the real way to see how effective your mods have been...

140 Olis. More than enough for me/my talents..

Apologies if my previous post was a bit aggressive, I was just interested to see what the std 182's made on the day.

With hindsight, the figures of other cars don't really matter. The only way to truly tell how effective the mods have been is by testing before and after figures for the same vehcile, which in this case could not be done.

There are numerous resons why cars can produce results that differ from what was expected. Fuel grades, and indeed batch quality, tyre pressures and condition can affect the output on a rolling road - which could expalin why you and Steve produced similar results to the std 182, and indeed why you and Steve produced similar results to each other, despite the fact that you have a full exhaust system. If Steve was running better quality fuel, or if his tyres were in optimum shape for a rolling road then he would produce more pawer than yourself purely on these variables alone.

Your car could have only made 130 bhp at the wheels if you did not have the mods done, and although the 130 is less than it should have made, there are variables that can impact the results of a rolling road.

Rolling roads are fine for the tuning of cars, for example when an ECU is being mapped, to get before and after results, however the results they return themselves are not what counts, it's the differences between the results that are important.

Finally, it does appear that this particuar rolling road was producing very low figures, pointing to the fact that it may not have been calibrated properly, therefore all if these figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

At the end of the day I am still going to get a remap and an exhaust system, as you and Steve have both pointed out, yours cars felt much improved from getting the work done, and that is the main thing.

Can't really agree more with this, the only use of a rolling road is to compare before and after modifications, to even compare different cars on maximum power figures is misleading, like comparing a supercharged large capacity V8 (SL55 AMG)with a high revving V-10 (M5), the power outputs might look the same from a maximum power figure but the overall availability and amount of torque will be very different leading to different performance.

Overlapping with my ramblings on another post, I think the claimed dyno figure of 182bhp (error error, malfunction etc.) and the 'adjusted' output of a standard F4R in a 182 being around 169bhp is probably about right. The independent rolling road picking a realistic figure with the losses of tyres and drivetrain rather than the manafacturer's optimised 'clean' dyno figure.

 

[Neophyte]

Apologies if my previous post was a bit aggressive, I was just interested to see what the std 182's made on the day. ... At the end of the day I am still going to get a remap and an exhaust system, as you and Steve have both pointed out, yours cars felt much improved from getting the work done, and that is the main thing.

Aggressive, not at all old bean. I have read many of your posts, that is not how you 'bowl them'

The figures were below what I might have expected, but I would still recommend having it done. The additional torque is great.

 

[nelson182]

My 182 produced 168. I went to see if the K&N OPEN induction kit was causing me a loss in power. I would realistically say NO loss and No gain, but a great noise!! In the future I may swap back to a panel filter, also maybe a de-cat and go for a re-map. I now also have a base figure to work against! 8)

 

[Steve]

My 182 produced 168. I went to see if the K&N OPEN induction kit was causing me a loss in power. I would realistically say NO loss and No gain, but a great noise!! In the future I may swap back to a panel filter, also maybe a de-cat and go for a re-map. I now also have a base figure to work against! 8)

That's the good thing about a rolling road test, you know if future mods have made a gain/loss.

Re-map is worth it for the throttle response alone. One of my only early criticisms of the Trophy after the test drive was the slightly sluggish electronic throttle.

The de-cat seems to be the way to go, might even be the best value power per pound mod there is, save the cliotrophy sticker. Of course.

 

[OliS]

It's a bit of a lottery though, you would have to use the same RR and in the same conditions to ensure that the figures would be accurate.

The point I am trying to make, which is highlighted by all the low figures that the Surrey RR returned, is that you could go to a different RR and make different figures to the one's that you got. 7MAT for example returned figures below his previous run on a different RR.

The only real way to test the effect of modifications is to do a base run, carry out the mods and then retest, on the same RR and in the same conditions.

There are so many variables that come into effect, for example if you did a power run on one day, the RR is recalibrated the next day, you return on the third with the same car in the same state of tune, then the figures would probably be different.

 

[jezza l]

so how loud is the loud orbisoud? I can't find anything telling me and i'm getting tempted to buy one.

EDIT:
Also just to add. I was at Goodwood today and I was noise tested at 5200rpm and it was 92db. So at what rpm does the quiet orbi produce 87db?

 

[oliie]

so how loud is the loud orbisoud? I can't find anything telling me and i'm getting tempted to buy one.

EDIT:
Also just to add. I was at Goodwood today and I was noise tested at 5200rpm and it was 92db. So at what rpm does the quiet orbi produce 87db?

I've seen a thread in the last few weeks with a video clip of the Orbisoud - I can't remember who poasted it though

O.

 

[jezza l]

Yup i've seen that to but i can't get an idea of how loud it really is. Plus i attend track days that are 98db limit so it needs to be under that.