LSD on Clio 182

[George K]

Big question is exactly what do Renault fit to the Megane R26 etc? I am led to believe that it comes out of the Nissan parts bin and that it may be made by a Japanese associate of GKN?

Also working in the transmission industry we know that the snatchiness of a plate diff is largely due detailed design and quality of components. The biggest problem is that making the right quality of components so that the locking action does not degrade quickly is very expensive.

The general issue with gear type diffs is that if one wheel is totally unloaded they do not lock very well. There are tricks to reduce this short-coming. Certainly my DC5 suffers this way.

 

[Gib#244]

My mate used to have LSD on his 182 turbo - The first handfull of 182's to start the turbo 'trend' :lol: was a few years ago now mind! was running around the 330bhp but ran all day long at 260bhp, before he sold it he fitted the LSD and it was a HUGE improvement could put the power down and stopped the skipping when booting it. was truely and awesome motor.

Few pics of his car






Photobucket as cut half of the pics off!

 

[j333evo]

Big question is exactly what do Renault fit to the Megane R26 etc? I am led to believe that it comes out of the Nissan parts bin and that it may be made by a Japanese associate of GKN?

Also working in the transmission industry we know that the snatchiness of a plate diff is largely due detailed design and quality of components. The biggest problem is that making the right quality of components so that the locking action does not degrade quickly is very expensive.

The general issue with gear type diffs is that if one wheel is totally unloaded they do not lock very well. There are tricks to reduce this short-coming. Certainly my DC5 suffers this way.

You are pretty much spot on with where the diff came from, here's what if found:

GKN Driveline`s unique torque-sensing Helical limited slip differential
(LSD) has been chosen by Renault for the "Cup" version of it`s latest and most
powerful Mégane Renault Sport unveiled at this year`s Frankfurt Motor Show.

Succeeding the much praised Mégane F1 Team R26 and Mégane R26.R, the entirely
new Mégane Renault Sport features a 250hp (340 Nm), 2-litre 16-valve
turbocharged engine driving the front wheels.

In order to increase the sporty character of the new car`s "Cup" version and to
improve its dynamic performance especially for circuit driving, Renault
engineers asked GKN Driveline to develop their helical high-performance LSD as
standard equipment. GKN Driveline has been supplying similar units to Japanese
manufacturers since 1995, but fitment on the Mégane F1 Team-R26 in 2006 was the
first application by a European manufacturer.

The compact Helical LSD is fitted inside the transmission of the front-wheel
drive Mégane R. S. Cup significantly enhancing the drive delivery and general
dynamic performance of the car. The robust unit is a mechanical, torque-sensing
LSD, comprised of a knurled helical gear set inside a durable differential
housing. It operates on the basis of gear separation forces generating friction
between internal components and a resulting torque bias that resists
differentiation. Consistent performance, low backlash and compatibility with ABS
and ESP systems are key features of this GKN Driveline product.

Rob Rickell, global engineering director for GKN Driveline said, "Drivetrain
developments have lead to ever increasing power and torque outputs which have,
especially in the case of FWD cars, created big challenges. For Renault, we were
able to find an existing product that with relatively minimal engineering, was
ideally suited to their new performance Mégane R. S. Cup."

The Mégane R. S. Cup will be available later this year in Germany, France, the
UK, Italy and Spain.

Another LSD that is worth reading about, although no products available for the Clio unless its very similar to a 5GTT is Phantom Grip as its very cheap compared to others and have had some great feedback from a 500+bhp FTO owner who has only replaced due to going to 600+bhp for Ten Of the Best and has now gone much more expensive Quaife like his competitors. http://www.phantomgrip.com/

 

[George K]

j333evo

The other point about plate diffs is that it is quite easy to have different characteristics power on and off, also by playing with pre-load to change the rate at which the locking effect builds up.

Another supplier is Drexler in Germany.

 

[j333evo]

j333evo

The other point about plate diffs is that it is quite easy to have different characteristics power on and off, also by playing with pre-load to change the rate at which the locking effect builds up.

Another supplier is Drexler in Germany.

This is true, I've never used one, but the g/f's Dad when he worked for Nissan Europe WRC used to fit different diffs dependent on stages/surfaces etc, still has some of the plates kicking about from them and said he could set up pretty much any type of diff characteristic you liked on them, but all this ramp angles and backlash are above my knowledge and experience TBH. He is very impressed with the custom made Quaife ATB LSD we got made for our Cinquecento, its so small, but beautifully engineered.

As an aside was speaking to a guy who runs a FTO in Ten of the Best and all he used when running upto 500bhp was the Phantom Grip LSD and he really rated it, said it was great especially when he ran low power, upto 350bhp, but as he now runs 600+bhp he has changed to Quaife like his competitors do. I'm sure most know about Ten of the Best, but its also includes handling as well as 1/4 mile and top speed, so a well sorted all round diff is essential. Really tempted to try one in our Seicento as its only $299, so once shipped and tax when its gets here about £300 which is less than half Quaife.

Aaron.

 

[Luke335]

I'm thinking of getting an LSD fitted to the T next year (hopefully). I think it would benefit significantly to be honest (although I'm not measuring significance in terms of tenths of seconds off lap times). I dare say it would be a waste of time and money if the car doesn't see much track/B-road 'spirited' action though.

SharkyUK, I remember you guys fitted a diff to the Civic. How are you guys finding it day to day. Any adverse effects? At this time of year I often think it would complete the Trophy.

 

[salem]

I'm thinking of getting an LSD fitted to the T next year (hopefully). I think it would benefit significantly to be honest (although I'm not measuring significance in terms of tenths of seconds off lap times). I dare say it would be a waste of time and money if the car doesn't see much track/B-road 'spirited' action though.

SharkyUK, I remember you guys fitted a diff to the Civic. How are you guys finding it day to day. Any adverse effects? At this time of year I often think it would complete the Trophy.

I have been watching and reading this thread with interest, makes for very good reading and very interesting on some peoples views on this.

I'm owner of the CTR which we put a Spoon LSD on back in March just before we did the Isle of Man tour.. Now I will admit to anyone and I've always said that I preferred driving Sharky's Trophy over my CTR and those that go out driving with us will confirm I was pretty much always driving Sharky's Trophys on meets however since putting the LSD on the CTR I have hardly driven Sharky's Trophy and now much prefer driving my CTR (sorry Trophy fans, but good news for Sharky as he gets his car back lol) thats how good the LSD is. I wasnt fussed on my CTR if I'm honest but now I love it..

It really has transformed the car that much. The car is only a weekend car so its not used around the town and I would say if you us your car around the town everyday driving then dont get an LSD as it can be a little snatchy if you are not careful. However if you use your car for the track or a good blast on country roads you will love it as it handles sooo much better... in the wet again took it out for a blast to see how she handles and I was just amazed on how well she handled she just keeps turning in. However I'm no expect I'm no race driver but even I can tell the car handles much better... but thats on the CTR and who cares about that this is a Trophy form :wink:

I would be very interested to speak to someone who has had an LSD fitting to a Clio 182 to see what they think about it.

I've driven both the CTR and Trophy back to back many times on the road and track so I do know the difference and yes the Trophy doesnt need an LSD like the CTR does (IMO) but if it makes that much difference to the handling of the CTR then I would have thought it would make a big difference on the Trophy too ? Which is why we are thinking about it..

Besides SharkyUK's getting jealous because the CTR whips his ass on the twistys :lol: <runs and hides now lol >

 

[Luke335]

Thats a good review, thanks. My Trophy is very much an everyday car at the moment so I wouldn't want anything too snatchy. I guess I would prefer not to have a plate style diff. I know the Trophy is fantastic already but I don't like waiting until the wheels are straight before I can get on the power. Rear wheel drive next I think!

Like you said, it would be really useful to speak to someone with one fitted to a 182.

 

[Englebert]

So almost 10 years on.... are more people running LSDs?

My car has done 115k miles. I don't know the gearbox's history, but it feels great. But when the inevitable rebuild beckons, I really fancy adding the Quaife.

 

[SharkyUK]

I didn't want a 'hardcore' track-focused LSD on my Trophy, hence went with the 'fit and forget' Quaife. Superb mod. Absolutely worth it if you genuinely enjoy your spirited driving and track days (as I know you do). Of course, the Quaife is also a lot more civilised for everyday road driving as well.

If you've got a gearbox rebuild on the horizon then I wouldn't hesitate recommending the upgrade. Whether or not you want to get it done to a healthy gearbox is a different matter (although I would still recommend it if it fits within the budget).

 

[Claude]

I’ve decided to take the plunge - I’ve had a refurbished box for a while now, and while it was being overhauled last year I thought it was a good time to add a Quaife. It’s all going to be fitted into the car next week ahead of a weekend in Wales next month to see what all the fuss is about.

It’s yet another very expensive mod offering only marginal gains, but the Trophy is a keeper and the diff can return on the investment in the many years ahead so I’m fairly comfortable with the outlay, and I can’t wait to be rid of the third gear issue that’s been around for a few years and has spoiled many a spirited drive. Win win.

 

[SharkyUK]

Great decision, mate!

 

[Scott_180]

dry road use , probably not
Wet / track use , be worth it

 

[James__H]

Evening all!

Resurrecting this thread.

I'm having the clutch done on #167 (gearbox is coming out). Which had me thinking... should I fit an LSD?

Who on here has one? @SharkyUK - how do you find it after a few more years' use on the road?

 

[photo_ed]

I don't have one fitted personally, but if I was in your position, I'd be looking very closely at fitting the Quaife ATB LSD, I think it'd be just the thing for a road car. However, can't comment specifically on how well they suit a 182.

I'd also probably fit one of the TTV lightened flywheels while it's all apart too, but then I do have a bit of a thing for the throttle response and feeling of acceleration which comes with lowering certain rotational masses within the engine. It's a legacy from my tinkering and tuning of classic Mini engines which respond really well to loping a load of weight off the clutch & flywheel assembly. Certainly something to consider.

 

[SharkyUK]

Evening all!

Resurrecting this thread.

I'm having the clutch done on #167 (gearbox is coming out). Which had me thinking... should I fit an LSD?

Who on here has one? @SharkyUK - how do you find it after a few more years' use on the road?

Sadly, I sold my Quaife LSD and gearbox a few years ago when I thought I was selling the car (following the turbo build troubles). However, I did get a fair bit of time behind the wheel with the LSD fitted and it is something I would happily do again if I were having the gearbox done. The fit and forget Quaife is ideal and what I had in mine. Perfect for the road and for light track duties, too. It's not a full-on hardcore helical/plate LSD but they can be a bit of a noisy pain and maintenance headache on a road car anyway. So yeah, I would recommend a Quaife and, in hindsight, I think Renaultsport missed a trick by not adding such a unit as standard on these cars. I would have happily paid an extra grand or so to have had one out of the box or straight from the factory.

It's probably the one and only modification I do/would still consider on my Trophy now that it's back to standard.

 

[James__H]

Thanks Ed and Andy for your input.

Chatting to Mick at Diamond Motors, we've decided to park the LSD mod for now.

Mainly because the work he's doing has already had significant scope creep (more on that on #167's thread soon), so future spends will be prioritised elsewhere - starting with new tyres, and a bit of spend reserved for a damper rebuild when needed.

From what @SharkyUK and @photo_ed are saying, it does seem an LSD will be part of #167's future though! Always good to hear from owners in the know.

 

[Craig196]

This is certainly a mod I have my eye on as well, but like you James there are bigger priorities on the to-do list

 

[Lewr1407]

Evening all!

Resurrecting this thread.

I'm having the clutch done on #167 (gearbox is coming out). Which had me thinking... should I fit an LSD?

Who on here has one? @SharkyUK - how do you find it after a few more years' use on the road?

Hi James,

I’m also having a clutch replaced in a couple of weeks and with the impending work, have decided to get an LSD installed too.

I sent away the gearbox to NorthLoop Cup - Mark - (highly popular and recommended on the ClioSport forum for Clio gearbox rebuilds) to have it fully rebuilt and a Blackline helical LSD added. Mark has trialled the Blackline LSD and says that it’s pretty much the same as a Quaife, but half the price. I think they’re around £600-£700, where as the Quaife is £1100+ last time I checked.

I’ll be putting the car back together in a couple of weeks so will let you know how it feels. Also adding a lightweight flywheel as recommended earlier by @photo_ed.

 

[James__H]

Hi James,

I’m also having a clutch replaced in a couple of weeks and with the impending work, have decided to get an LSD installed too.

I sent away the gearbox to NorthLoop Cup - Mark - (highly popular and recommended on the ClioSport forum for Clio gearbox rebuilds) to have it fully rebuilt and a Blackline helical LSD added. Mark has trialled the Blackline LSD and says that it’s pretty much the same as a Quaife, but half the price. I think they’re around £600-£700, where as the Quaife is £1100+ last time I checked.

I’ll be putting the car back together in a couple of weeks so will let you know how it feels. Also adding a lightweight flywheel as recommended earlier by @photo_ed.

Sounds great! Definitely keep me posted.

It would be good to do a back to back test if possible!

All the best