Cars good in the snow?

[reboot]

Gordon, I like your comments on the Rallye.

I've often toyed with the idea of buying another one. The two I had were left hookers as I lived in Geneva then. Sold the last one 5 years ago, when I moved back to the UK. Had Peugeot Sport suspension put on them, which made them even more beautifully handling and this also explains why I actually find the ride in the Trophy comfortable.

Yes I would describe the Rallye as more raw than the Trophy and I know exactly what you mean when you say 'connected', but I just love the Trophy's ability to be all things at all times - if I'm feeling tired after work I just drive it like a granny, but if I'm up for it, it 'lights up' in a nanosecond into a superb B road blaster and also is good on the motorway, if I have to use one. To make a misquote: 'The Trophy's a master of all trades and a jack of none' if you get what I mean. The Rallye on the other hand is really all on or all off. The 'connectedness' no doubt is what makes it better on snow at least partly due to being less than 900kg and 175 tyres this is not really surprising compared to the Trophy.

Wouldn't mind getting another one but don't think I could justify another car to the wife just now, but must admit you've brought back some very happy memories of many early morning drives on Alpine mountain passes.

Nick

 

[quik5i1ver]

I love the misquote of 'The Trophy's a master of all trades and a jack of none' - someone write it in a letter to EVO!

I know of a guy who had a S1 Rallye and he absolutely loved it. If I was in the position of commuting to work by car rather than train then a Rallye would rightly or wrongly be on my list as an affordable weekday car. What are they like in he reliability and maintenance stakes?

 

[Gordon]

quik5i1ver, three words; cheap and bulletproof.

You'd want an unmolested one though, which can be tricky these days, as around 2003/4 they began to fall into the wrong hands if you know what I mean. Quite a lot got badly 'tuned' with exhausts, air filters and dodgy conversions, like changing the rear beam to carry disc brakes; yes they still had drums! Trophy people seem to know how to develop properly, the MaxPower kids just messed about, generally doing more harm than good.

The only times I have had reliability issues is with the rally car and they were impact related, nothing that a road car would be subjected to. Cracked the gearbox casing, punched a Peugeot Sport gravel damper through the top mount and bonnet etc.

Enginewise the Group A and N cars that were blueprinted, had high lift cams etc revved to 10k! Although those engines were rebuild fairly often. What I'm saying is as long as good oil has been used and 5k intervals have been adhered to, cam belt change etc and they've been kept standard with no silly HT leads and flash spark plugs you should be fine. They redline at 7200rpm so there is plenty of safety zone to provide the engine longevity compared to running to 10k. The head gasket did go on my road car at about 45k, but it was spotted well before the engine overheated and could have potentially done damage. The engine is pretty special in that car and was only made for it. It's an evolution of the TU unit from the 205 Rallye and before that the Talbot Samba and Sunbeams. The 205 TU was also a 1294cc unit but has twin Webbers, the Rallye has Magneti Marinelli controlled direct injection and an aluminium block. All the pistons and con-rods are perfectly balanced etc.

The body work has held up pretty well, no real rust issues, again as long as they have been cared for. Some people did have problems with rear wheel bearings going, then as they had collapsed the rear beam bent. This usually occurred to people that ran 6" width wheels rather than the standard 5.5". With 6" people put 185 tyres on them too. I did have a top hose go as well, but that was purely a crack from the age of the rubber! There is nothing in them to really go wrong to be honest. No electric windows, little in the way of comfort apart some very good OEM no branded Recaro's. They have a really expensive alternator though. Never had a problem with mine, but as they were designed to run a full lamp-pod, normal lights, interior lights for poti, map lights and de-mister at full load, they are pretty punchy.

Go on, you know you want one...happy to help and try to answer any questions you have if you decide to look for one.

Nick, I totally agree with your comments re the "master of all trades, but jack of none", great misquote. It can be a sheep or wolf in sheep’s clothing depending on your mood. To a certain extent the Rallye is the same, but far from a soothing thing on the way home after a long day. You really have to drive it at 55mph in 5th for that. I used to enjoy that though, trying to remain at a constant 55mph even though the bends! The Rallye is not a motorway car. It's not very passenger friendly either, one of the main reasons I got the Trophy. Not to mention I felt it is the nearest thing to the Rallye in spirit and ethos.

Living in Geneva must have been a great place to drive one. All those mountain passes to hoon about on. Particularly with Peugeot Sport asphalt inserts. I think the connectedness is one reason for the snow driving capability, but also no ESP or ABS and a good old throttle cable. I think you should try some angles on the wife. How about "your new shopping car darling, a sporty future classic, cheap to run etc"...worth a try. Good luck!

 

[PeterGinger]

I'd love to run a full group N rallye on the roads. Possible?
dont seem to cost too much

 

[reboot]

Gordon,

This is seriously tempting, I shall have to stop thinking about this. Great to see what an enthusiast you are. Wish I had time for that kind of commitment. The arguments you suggest are more or less exactly what I said to buy the Trophy, but knowing wifey uses it every day is an extra source of stress.

Anyway I'd love to hear the answer to PeterGinger's question as I'd probably start thinking about it seriously.

This is nuts as I always said after the Trophy I'd get a Caterham or Elise or a 4wd like a Evo VI or something. I never planned on another front drive hatch, especially not while keeping the Trophy, which I will keep for a long time, if not forever.

Oh well, temptation and dreams.... we'll see!

Nick

 

[PeterGinger]

How about turning a trophy into a rally car for the roads? Probably wouldnt need much mods.
What would be required?

 

[Shabba]

+1 - i have a thread over on CS at the mo finding out about thinnest wheels available for the T and recommendations for winter tyres.. I sold my chains when i bought the T as it can't have them fitted.... i'd have loved it now if they could

Hi Cue. I remember Auto Express advertising these a couple of years back. No need to change wheels or risk damage from chains.
http://www.autosock.co.uk/

Might be just the thing for the foothills.

 

[Gordon]

Nick, I certainly agree about the 'added source of stress' that is your other half using the T! I'm the same. Likewise on keeping the Trophy for as long as practical. Enjoy the next choice whatever it is. A Rallye could be fun, certainly cheaper than an Evo or Elise!

PeterGinger, the two questions you have really depend on budget and practicality. Running a Group N 106 Rallye on the road would be fine, as all rally cars have MOT's and tax discs. You'd need a specialist insurer though. The trouble is it wouldn't be that practical. Although Group N means you keep the cars fairly standard there still is a lot you can do. Group N is a classification meaning you have to use a road car that can be purchased as normal, and uses standard equipment, therefore not have sequential gearboxes fitted etc. The cars are still heavily modified. They can be expensive to run, mine has a ceramic paddle clutch, they are expensive and don't last like a normal plate. Would you be okay with a roll cage in your everyday car? Also seats that wouldn't adjust and six point harnesses? No boot either as you can remove trim beyond the rear seats and you couldn't use the rear seats due to the cage. All these types of things should be considered. It would all be pretty noisy and smelly too. You could do it though.

Regarding turning the Trophy into a rally car, I think it would be fine to do so. RenaultSport 182's have been used in rallying a great deal. A good rally preparation firm would be able to guide you through it. There would be little point in transforming a Trophy though. There is nothing that different to a normal 182 bar the suspension and geometry set up. Therefore using a normal 182 as the donor car would be more practical, cheaper too. When building a rally car you pretty well throw much of the standard equipment away. The nice Recaro's in the Trophy would go, the dampers, although great on asphalt are unlikely to be practical on loose surfaces. As you are talking about using it as specialist asphalt car you could keep the Sachs dampers, but for motor sport purposes there might be better alternatives. The modifications you need are also extensive. to start with; roll cage, extinguisher system, sump and tank guards, strut brace etc. then engine modifications, exhaust, springs and more, the list is long and you can spend and spend, and spend more and still improve things.

Happy to talk in detail if you'd like. Send me a pm with your number and I'll give you a call if you wish. Easier than typing!

 

[Cue]

+1 - i have a thread over on CS at the mo finding out about thinnest wheels available for the T and recommendations for winter tyres.. I sold my chains when i bought the T as it can't have them fitted.... i'd have loved it now if they could

Hi Cue. I remember Auto Express advertising these a couple of years back. No need to change wheels or risk damage from chains.
http://www.autosock.co.uk/

Might be just the thing for the foothills.

never seen them before - may invest..

 

[PeterGinger]

How does a rallying car's suspension differ from a tarmac circuit car's. Probably be better for the roads these days.