williams v trophy

[Nik]

Similarly, is there any reason why I have never seen you posting on Cliosport, which would seem to be more appropriate to the Clio Williams?

I believe he is banned from both Cliosport and WilliamsClio (at least under the name King Stromba) because of said knack of creating controversy wherever he posts.

I've tried to be a little less judgmental and allow him room to speak on here. He don't help himself sometimes though..... :roll:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

To be fair to Stromba, I have seen some incredibly quick Clio Williams on the hills, but as yet none of the more modern versions, so the comparison has yet to be made.

The most objective test would be to run a back to back circuit test with one competent driver. I guess that the circuit would need to be biased towards handling rather than outright top speed.

Stromba , you certainly seem to have the knack of creating controversy whenever you post. Perhaps you should add Dale Carnegie to your bedtime reading.

To help us mere mortal serfs understand your objectivity, could you kindly explain in what way, other than by obvious enthusiasm, you are qualified to make this claim. Is it based on qualifications and training, employment or profession?

Similarly, is there any reason why I have never seen you posting on Cliosport, which would seem to be more appropriate to the Clio Williams?

I am a research scientist of 10 years +. I undertake scientific comparisons for a living. I wont get into dependent or independent variable or statistical analysis, but surfice to say two different drivers in their own cars is about as scientific as claiing the moon is made of cheese because it looks that way.

 

[Nik]

The thing is you use this challenge as an argument against trophy owners when it suits you

Im still waiting for someone to take on my challenge of Trophy v standard Williams. No one does. I wonder why?

but then when someone agees to it, you make your excuses.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Who compares things objectively for a living? Me or you? I know more about objective testing than youve had hot dinners.

I saved the lexus lights for the northern posse. I mean, most of you are already well on your way to being chavs, so might as well stop the charade and just fit the bloody things and be done with it. Ill send them to the fcs for you to pick up. Will be in the max power tent, next to the drum and bass enclosure, opposite the salmonella stand.

who cares who compares what for a living, what's that got to do with anything? it's not a very difficult or particularly demanding scientific test, you just line the cars up next to each other and press pedals... even your capable of this surely? how about stop making excuses and going off topic, the challenge has been laid down and your constant reminders of how original and standard your cars are, not to mention how fast you think they are should put you at the front of the queue to test this theory. I happen to think your right, I don't think there would be a lot in it, but unfortunately my car is far from standard and would eat a Trophy for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All this hot air reminds me of the time you said SQM's were easy and how you could beat anyone... then the challenge was laid down and you did the old no show... be a man, take the Pepsi challenge...

haha, funny, although I think you may find that none of the northern 'posse' as you call us actually have any external modifications :wink: ... unless of course engine mods are now chav, in which case you'd be the front runner, as 0002 had chip, decat and exhaust when I saw it, 0200 has been rebuilt, therefore not original and the 2 new ones are non standard and track cars :wink: anyway, surely lexus lights are more of an essex wide boy thing with 17's, paroxide bleached hair and san tropez?

How is a rebuilt engine not original? Thats like saying your car is modified because the tyres wore down and so you replaced them. WTF? Youve lost it mate. You sure your love for 2lives has not given you a nasty infection that is destroying your immune system?

 

[George K]

Stromba - being a research scientist covers a wide range of activities - does it actually cover automtoive engineering - I work in motor racing and we do not employ chemical or genetic engineers as an example..
Please also note that I did suggest one competent driver for both cars.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Stromba - being a research scientist covers a wide range of activities - does it actually cover automtoive engineering - I work in motor racing and we do not employ chemical or genetic engineers as an example..
Please also note that I did suggest one competent driver for both cars.

Ok tell me how you would scientifically test whether an IK was an effective modification for a Clio trophy? I hand you a make and model of a kit and you have to go and test its effectiveness. How would you do it?

 

[TheJesus]

How is a rebuilt engine not original? Thats like saying your car is modified because the tyres wore down and so you replaced them. WTF? Youve lost it mate. You sure your love for 2lives has not given you a nasty infection that is destroying your immune system?

well, as it has new internals it's not the same engine that left the reno factory is it? i'm assuming it has new internals if it's been built properly anyway.

can you try and stay on topic please Robert, all this changing the subject nonsense is well and good, but the fact still remains that you have had your challenge accepted and don't even have the decency to reply, instead making petty remarks to try and get another thread closed. Is this your attempt to save face, as I think everyone here is smart enough to see through it :roll:

as for this test my original point still stands, get yourself to a meet with these guys and put your car up against it. it doesn't really need to be scientific, as this doesn't reflect real life anyway in this scenario, as it's unlikely you will get to compare against a Trophy with your clone driving it. your a big lad, so maybe it's power to weight being out of your favour that worries you? if so, just leave your head and ego in the parking lot, you'd probably be under average weight then giving you the advantage :wink:

... in other words, stop making excuses you big girl, it lessens any credibility you thought you had :lol:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

I will only race on track. I will only race my track car on track.

If you want Williams v Trophy i will be prepared to hand both cars over to an experienced driver (who is insured) and let him put them through their paces.

 

[TheJesus]

[quote="George K":dn42m0id]Stromba - being a research scientist covers a wide range of activities - does it actually cover automtoive engineering - I work in motor racing and we do not employ chemical or genetic engineers as an example..
Please also note that I did suggest one competent driver for both cars.

Ok tell me how you would scientifically test whether an IK was an effective modification for a Clio trophy? I hand you a make and model of a kit and you have to go and test its effectiveness. How would you do it?[/quote:dn42m0id]

well you wouldn't need some lab geek, a fully trained tuner would be able to do it. i'm sure if you took the said item to Nick Hill and put it on the rollers on the car and ran it a few times then without it would give a realistic indication... even if someone farts and the ambient temp goes up it's still only going to ever give similar results, so do alternative runs and check the difference... wow, no scientists needed... i'm sure K&N dont have men in white coats walking around, i'd be more inclined to believe that they are all mechanical engineers of some form :roll:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

[quote="George K":m0dqdkmm]Stromba - being a research scientist covers a wide range of activities - does it actually cover automtoive engineering - I work in motor racing and we do not employ chemical or genetic engineers as an example..
Please also note that I did suggest one competent driver for both cars.

Ok tell me how you would scientifically test whether an IK was an effective modification for a Clio trophy? I hand you a make and model of a kit and you have to go and test its effectiveness. How would you do it?

well you wouldn't need some lab geek, a fully trained tuner would be able to do it. i'm sure if you took the said item to Nick Hill and put it on the rollers on the car and ran it a few times then without it would give a realistic indication... even if someone farts and the ambient temp goes up it's still only going to ever give similar results, so do alternative runs and check the difference... wow, no scientists needed... i'm sure K&N dont have men in white coats walking around, i'd be more inclined to believe that they are all mechanical engineers of some form :roll:[/quote:m0dqdkmm]

You have just proved my point that you have no understanding of product testing AT ALL. Would not the first thing to do be to calibrate the instruments? If you dont how do you know what you are measuring is accurate?

Would not the second thing to do be to test the instruments post calibration to ensure they are calibrated accurately and that the results they give are BOTH accurate and precise?

 

[TheJesus]

You have just proved my point that you have no understanding of product testing ATALL. Would not the first thing to do be to calibrate the instruments? If you dont how do you know what you are measuring is accurate?

Would not the second thing to do be to test the instruments post calibration to ensure they are calibrated accurately and that the results they give are BOTH accurate and precise?

how so? we're not talking about product testing for safety or effectiveness under water at minus 50 degrees are we? it's a simple case of run the car with and without, all it needs to show is if their is an increase in power... I'd suggest Nick would be able to do this as he knows what he's doing, so if the IK makes more power then surely it's done just that? Unless i'm wrong and your saying Nick does not know how to calibrate or read the results?

I'd stop digging if I were you... your just looking foolish now... anyway, once again, can we try and stay on topic, this is all well and good but the fact remains thus:

I will only race on track. I will only race my track car on track.

If you want Williams v Trophy i will be prepared to hand both cars over to an experienced driver (who is insured) and let him put them through their paces.

pmsl, well as that's never going to happen let's go with my original theory that:

'you are full of (fill in as appropriate)'

let's face it, you could easily prove or disprove your theory in a matter of minutes, yet you choose not to, therefore the Trophy is faster by default and your arguement is both invalid and lost. Guess all we have to go on is the magazine road test results and power to weight.

I respect you for it though KS, it's old skool that, argue til your blue in the face and then when it comes to proving it you have nothing more than 'opinion'... I thought you were a scientist?

 

[Nik]

Rob, if you want to hire a test track, and the use of an experienced driver for your challenge then i'll happily hand over my Trophy for a comparison.

If not then we'll just have to go along with the next best thing, the reviews of the journalists who've driven them.

If you want a fair test then you'll need to bring along accurate timing equipment, weather monitoring facilities (we wouldn't want that random gust of wind to effect the results!), and the ability to test the levels of adrenaline in the drivers blood, just in case it drops between test meaning he isn't quite as committed in one car as the other.....

 

[Day]

Nik

Want me to speak to Ross, I'm sure he'd love to do the honours

 

[TheJesus]

exactly Nik, may as well lock this before it goes completely off topic... I think we all know what KS idea of proof is:

"that's the way it is because King Stromba said so!"

... what about the facts?

"ha, fool, i'll just bore you to death by constantly going off topic until your eyes bleed and everyone forgets the silly claims I made!"

um, okay then :roll:

:lol:

 

[Nik]

Nik

Want me to speak to Ross, I'm sure he'd love to do the honours

Yep definately, as long as the test track isn't Rockingham :shock:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

it's a simple case of run the car with and without, all it needs to show is if their is an increase in power...

So you run the car with induction kit. It gets 150 bhp. You then take it off and run it again with standard airbox and it gets 140 bhp. What does that prove? Does it prove:

That the engine gains 10 bhp with the IK on?

or

That the engine broke during the first run and is now 10 bhp down?

or

That the temperature has gone up 5 degree in the engine bay since the firsts run?


How do we know the rolling road is accurate? If the rolling road is calibarted to measure +/- 10 bhp, the IK could have had no effect atall and the measurement is within your stated tolerence.

The trouble is that poeple who think they know about things they dont post rubbish like you just have. Your not a scientist, you know NOTHING about testing. Why bother making yourself look stupid?

 

[Nik]

Who's talking about induction kit testing?

The topic was Williams v Trophy and your challenge.

 

[George K]

There is a well known scientific way of testing IK's, which tends to show that they are generally over-rated. Any idea as to how it is done, KS?

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Ive already agreed to the test.

 

[TheJesus]

it's a simple case of run the car with and without, all it needs to show is if their is an increase in power...

So you run the car with induction kit. It gets 150 bhp. You then take it off and run it again with standard airbox and it gets 140 bhp. What does that prove? Does it prove:

That the engine gains 10 bhp with the IK on?

or

That the engine broke during the first run and is now 10 bhp down?

or

That the temperature has gone up 5 degree in the engine bay since the firsts run?


How do we know the rolling road is accurate? If the rolling road is calibarted to measure +/- 10 bhp, the IK could have had no effect atall and the measurement is within your stated tolerence.

The trouble is that poeple who think they know about things they dont post rubbish like you just have. Your not a scientist, you know NOTHING about testing. Why bother making yourself look stupid?

thing is Roberta, your the one looking silly once again, your making EVERY excuse under the sun for being a girly wimp who clearly has no confidence in his ability to change gear and press pedals, or your cars performance (or lack of).

just to humour you i'll start by saying "stop putting words in my mouth". your just making this up as you go along, if scientist is another word for "unemployed" then maybe you are, as I find it hard to believe that you could be a scientist when you cannot read full sentenses and paragraphs properly.

what you need to realise here is that I didn't say I would test the induction kit did I? I said someone like Nick Hill, so what your saying is that he doesn't know what he's doing and when I go take my car to his place for an RR the results will be bullshit. Fair enough, I'll get my money back (see, this is putting words in people's mouths)