Trophy to 197 R27/200
I've driven my Uncle's 200 FF (non-Cup chassis) and like you say performance is pretty similar but the 200 feels a lot more solid and refined. Without the cup chassis the ride is pretty compliant but it doesn't give you quite the same confidence in the twisties I found. The 200 sounds pretty nice when you rev it but is so quiet compared to the Trophy the rest of the time. Also seems to pull harder from low revs (ie will pull from 15-20mph in 5th no bother).
I prefer the Trophy to drive but I'd say a 200 would make a better daily driving proposition.
I prefer the Trophy to drive but I'd say a 200 would make a better daily driving proposition.
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When i had my Trophy i test drove a 200 cup, the first thing you notice is how much more solid the 200 is and more refined inside with minimal road noise for a hot hatch, the driving position is very good and it does feel quite nice to be in, as has been said they do sound nice, and do pick up very well but they don't feel as urgent as the 172/182's do. the car didn't feel heavy as such but it certainly didn't feel as nimble as the Trophy does.
I wasn't impressed enough with the 200 to change the trophy for one so i started looking at R26's, well i ended up buying one, the interior is all very nice with some nice features, they certainly come pretty well specced too. Driving it was very different to the Trophy but there was a lot of similarities with the Trophy which only come out when you start pushing it very hard, mine was mapped which is well worth the money as it gives you a really nice torque curve and power delivery and having the lsd means it copes with this very well. The brakes are the poorest part of the car in my opinion (maybe this is just because i've been use to light hatches for a while now) The extra running costs are surprisingly high over a trophy, I had my R26 for 6months and averaged 22.9mpg over that time, also the PS2 tyres are very expensive at around £195 a corner and the Megane eats tyres if you drive enthusiastically!!
Both the R26 and 200 cope with the roads very well but neither of them match what the Trophy is like on our roads IMO.
I"m back in a Clio now though, a 172 cup this time as i just miss everything the Clio is.
I wasn't impressed enough with the 200 to change the trophy for one so i started looking at R26's, well i ended up buying one, the interior is all very nice with some nice features, they certainly come pretty well specced too. Driving it was very different to the Trophy but there was a lot of similarities with the Trophy which only come out when you start pushing it very hard, mine was mapped which is well worth the money as it gives you a really nice torque curve and power delivery and having the lsd means it copes with this very well. The brakes are the poorest part of the car in my opinion (maybe this is just because i've been use to light hatches for a while now) The extra running costs are surprisingly high over a trophy, I had my R26 for 6months and averaged 22.9mpg over that time, also the PS2 tyres are very expensive at around £195 a corner and the Megane eats tyres if you drive enthusiastically!!
Both the R26 and 200 cope with the roads very well but neither of them match what the Trophy is like on our roads IMO.
I"m back in a Clio now though, a 172 cup this time as i just miss everything the Clio is.
I had a long drive out in a R27 as I was going to trade mine for one - the owner of the R27 was driving my trophy and everytime there was a straight the trophy was all over it, came to corners, again the trophy didn't drop back. I really liked the R27 and still do!
The build quality is ALOT better than the T and I really enjoyed the drive, I have to admit when I got back in the T I didn't like it
but when I drove the T the day after I just loved the way it felt again.....
I have been looking at the Meganes R26's and hopefully in the new year I might get to drive one, but for now the trophy ticks all the box's!
The build quality is ALOT better than the T and I really enjoyed the drive, I have to admit when I got back in the T I didn't like it
but when I drove the T the day after I just loved the way it felt again.....I have been looking at the Meganes R26's and hopefully in the new year I might get to drive one, but for now the trophy ticks all the box's!
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I have to say, on paper, I really can't find anything which is as cheap to run and quick as the Trophy. The Trophy does, as you say, tick all the boxes.
This sounds awful, but I've found myself feeling like this and when I used to read the type of comment I'm about to put, I used to think "what a knob". Saying this, over the past few months I do alot more travelling. I also go out to client sites alot more now and have to drive about in city centre's (In an accountant, an auditor these days so have to go and visit my clients a bit more) and the Clio isn't what I want or need. I'm not arsed about how I "look" - it's more about build quality and getting from A to B. I really wouldn't mind a slightly more refined car and a car which can sit on the motorway a little easier. The other day I was off to Leeds/Manchester from Liverpool and at 7:00 am in the morning I just want an easy ride. Dare I say it, something a bit softer and more long geared. This issue is very apparent on very shit city centre roads where the quality of road is awful and you get shaken about all over the palce. However, on a Sunday or when I get to go the back to some of the clients here in Aberdeen, it's a bit of a joy.
Really boringly, I seem to end up giving people lifts a bit more these days and heading to courses a slightly bigger car would be easier 5 doors would on most occasions be really handy, but I really refuse to do that.
This sounds awful, but I've found myself feeling like this and when I used to read the type of comment I'm about to put, I used to think "what a knob". Saying this, over the past few months I do alot more travelling. I also go out to client sites alot more now and have to drive about in city centre's (In an accountant, an auditor these days so have to go and visit my clients a bit more) and the Clio isn't what I want or need. I'm not arsed about how I "look" - it's more about build quality and getting from A to B. I really wouldn't mind a slightly more refined car and a car which can sit on the motorway a little easier. The other day I was off to Leeds/Manchester from Liverpool and at 7:00 am in the morning I just want an easy ride. Dare I say it, something a bit softer and more long geared. This issue is very apparent on very shit city centre roads where the quality of road is awful and you get shaken about all over the palce. However, on a Sunday or when I get to go the back to some of the clients here in Aberdeen, it's a bit of a joy.
Really boringly, I seem to end up giving people lifts a bit more these days and heading to courses a slightly bigger car would be easier
5 doors would on most occasions be really handy, but I really refuse to do that.
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Having read that i think you should definitely have a drive of a R26, if your mostly doing long journeys good mpg can be had and they are very spacious compared to a Trophy for passengers and really are a nice place to be.
I know you said you don't want to go to 5 doors but a Megane 225 can be had for near Trophy money these days and you could get a 5 door one and have that nice practical car you want and also have something thats enjoyable and fun to drive at the weekends. Maybe worth considering.
I know you said you don't want to go to 5 doors but a Megane 225 can be had for near Trophy money these days and you could get a 5 door one and have that nice practical car you want and also have something thats enjoyable and fun to drive at the weekends. Maybe worth considering.
A 197 would not be a good motorway car, the gear ratio's are lower than the trophy, I think the 200 was improved on this but haven't driven one so can't comment.
I would consider getting a golf mk5 Gti, 5 door and still a good looking car IMO and if you feel the need to tune there are plenty of options out there
I would consider getting a golf mk5 Gti, 5 door and still a good looking car IMO and if you feel the need to tune there are plenty of options out there
A 197 would not be a good motorway car, the gear ratio's are lower than the trophy, I think the 200 was improved on this but haven't driven one so can't comment.
I would consider getting a golf mk5 Gti, 5 door and still a good looking car IMO and if you feel the need to tune there are plenty of options out there
I would consider getting a golf mk5 Gti, 5 door and still a good looking car IMO and if you feel the need to tune there are plenty of options out there
Skoda Fabia vRS, Skoda Octavia vRS (diesel) or BMW 320d.
From your comments about comfort and value, if you're looking for something a bit more long-legged then you might as well go performance diesel and save a fair bit on fuel too.
The Skoda Fabias can apparetly be tuned easily to Clio power with all the benfits of diesel torque. Built to German standards so nice and sturdy and I believe have a sixth cruising gear - I was very close but went for Trophy instead.
From your comments about comfort and value, if you're looking for something a bit more long-legged then you might as well go performance diesel and save a fair bit on fuel too.
The Skoda Fabias can apparetly be tuned easily to Clio power with all the benfits of diesel torque. Built to German standards so nice and sturdy and I believe have a sixth cruising gear - I was very close but went for Trophy instead.
i ran a Trophy for about 15k and an R27 for 10k... to me the R27 was the car that handled better, felt more planted and never felt like it was unsettled... sure it wasn't as raw as a Trophy (or any 182 for that matter) but it had great presence and was much easier to drive hard. Some complain of the steering weighting being too light in the 197 but I didn't find it an issue. Mine was an early one so had a high revving 6th gear, tbh it was a car that i regularly block changed in as there was so little difference in gear ratios.. 5th was barely used on mine!!
being a bigger and heavier car, you'll notice the increase in running costs - heavier on fuel, Brembo brakes, bigger tyres - all contribute to the increased running costs. Mixed opinions on the build quality of them, mine had a few issues - most noticeably surrounding the quality of the Recaro's and a few small niggles, but nothing i'd call major.
I've gone full circle (few cars inbetween) but back in a 182... they can't be beaten IMO for out of the box fun... if you like n/a and want a change then the 197 / 200 is where you want to look... if you fancy something slightly bigger and want easy power gains then the Meggy is where you want to head. Either way, there is very little difference in running costs between a 197 and a Meggy
being a bigger and heavier car, you'll notice the increase in running costs - heavier on fuel, Brembo brakes, bigger tyres - all contribute to the increased running costs. Mixed opinions on the build quality of them, mine had a few issues - most noticeably surrounding the quality of the Recaro's and a few small niggles, but nothing i'd call major.
I've gone full circle (few cars inbetween) but back in a 182... they can't be beaten IMO for out of the box fun... if you like n/a and want a change then the 197 / 200 is where you want to look... if you fancy something slightly bigger and want easy power gains then the Meggy is where you want to head. Either way, there is very little difference in running costs between a 197 and a Meggy
I ran both a Trophy and a R27 for nearly 2 years, i was thinking about this today on the plane back from London and came up with the following Trophy / R27 comparison...
before anyone starts... please remember this is " in my experence".
TROPHY
GOOD
Seats, handling, alloys (good quality), faster 0-60, better av mpg (32.5), re-sale value, kudos.
BAD
Brakes, steering wheel (size), long journerys (despite not doing many), worrying about damper re-builds.
R27
GOOD
Gearbox, brakes, steering wheel (size), build quality (better)
BAD
Long journeys (did quite a few, once in the back - never again!), self-destructing Recaro seats, overall height, pointless 5th gear, no 5K kick, alloys (poor quality), worse av mpg (26.5) hesitant acceleration, re-sale value.(maybe it was just the time but this was a HARD car to sell)
before anyone starts... please remember this is " in my experence".
TROPHY
GOOD
Seats, handling, alloys (good quality), faster 0-60, better av mpg (32.5), re-sale value, kudos.
BAD
Brakes, steering wheel (size), long journerys (despite not doing many), worrying about damper re-builds.
R27
GOOD
Gearbox, brakes, steering wheel (size), build quality (better)
BAD
Long journeys (did quite a few, once in the back - never again!), self-destructing Recaro seats, overall height, pointless 5th gear, no 5K kick, alloys (poor quality), worse av mpg (26.5) hesitant acceleration, re-sale value.(maybe it was just the time but this was a HARD car to sell)
My trophy was good.
My 197 was better & my mate shits himself when i drive his 200
I can't tell the difference between the 197/200 as i never bothered about mpg or costs i just drove it hard.
Down my test track the 197 still has the record, but not by much.
My 197 was better & my mate shits himself when i drive his 200
I can't tell the difference between the 197/200 as i never bothered about mpg or costs i just drove it hard.
Down my test track the 197 still has the record, but not by much.
G
Guest
I've owned a 182 Trophy, a 197 Cup, an R26.R and I am now back in another Trophy. For me the Trophy is the most rewarding car to drive quickly out of them all. Ultimately slower than the other two, but in terms of outright fun and driver feedback it eclipses them both. Whilst the turbocharged power delivery of the R26.R is effective, it's just not as rewarding to work hard as the Clios' N/A units, whereas the 197 just doesn't quite have the light feeling of the Trophy. I haven't driven a Clio 200, but it is generally regarded as being quite a big step forward over the 197. I fully expect it to be absolutely awesome, and probably a better car than the Trophy. Faster, just as much fun and more refined to boot.
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I will defer the decision until next March/April time. Although, I am now slightly tempted by a Audi A3, TDI, 140PS in S Line spec. 8k gets you a 2006 plate car with all the trimmings. A colleague has one and you can get them in 3 and 5 door spec. Hmmmm.
^^ my dad's been toying with an a3 s-line 170ps in 4 door guise.. He likes the idea of dsg 'box as he's deAf, thus although he can drive a manual, it's less hassle to drive an auto and since trying the dsg, finds traditional torque converters a touch sluggish.
One assumes your colleague rates them highly?
One assumes your colleague rates them highly?