Toe setup

[PPTom]

They have a pretty good setup George: http://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/default.asp?id=20
I rang them this evening and am going back in next friday for a check over (to make sure a camber bolt hasn't slipped), test drive, and re-toe if needed, f.o.c, so I can't really complain.
Tyres are spot on PE2's, pressure matched by me to +/- 0.25Psi, so I'm hoping the steering joints are not to blame, it was ok before I had the setup, so hopefully next friday should sort things out.
I'll post up my findings.
Tom
Scott, your rear left looks like its got positive camber from the readout and is also toeing out instead of in, this sugegsts to me that its had a whack at some point and could be causing your pulling.
Could you get a better resolution image of the final printout please?

 

[Cue]

the rear axel is fixed, you can't alter the toe or the camber.... i didn't think it was possible for it to be 'out' unless the wheel's hit a curb or something.

480bhp. i would say it depends on how many miles on the road you'll be doing v track miles - personally for a pure track car that's still drivable on the road i'd go for -3.0 camber at least and slight toe out but you'll scrub tyres quickly - the benefits for cornering though outweigh the disadvantages though.

I think there's only me and g40steve that's run neutral toe - i also found this to be the best compromise. personally i'd never go toe in on a the Trophy, it'll be very unstable under braking imo as the weight transfer will naturally increase the toe in even further - you'd be snowploughing down the road basically.

to me it sounds like the northampton crew have fallen into the same trap as most motor sport people - i spoke to a few before trying my set-ups and they were saying very similar things.

The people i used though - who set-up for lotus btw - talked me out of it. there number is in the garage and are surprisingly cheap - they'll travel all over the country also.

 

[scott]

They have a pretty good setup George: http://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/default.asp?id=20
I rang them this evening and am going back in next friday for a check over (to make sure a camber bolt hasn't slipped), test drive, and re-toe if needed, f.o.c, so I can't really complain.
Tyres are spot on PE2's, pressure matched by me to +/- 0.25Psi, so I'm hoping the steering joints are not to blame, it was ok before I had the setup, so hopefully next friday should sort things out.
I'll post up my findings.
Tom
Scott, your rear left looks like its got positive camber from the readout and is also toeing out instead of in, this sugegsts to me that its had a whack at some point and could be causing your pulling.
Could you get a better resolution image of the final printout please?

PPTom here is some better pics.
Before:-

After:-


The rear of the car has never taken a wack since i have owned it and im the only driver, also i just dug the alignment print outs i had done just after a bought the car and the rears are fine on them?
Going off the pics above could anyone suggest the best settings for each, road use, i.e. the factory settings for each?
Cheers

 

[g40steve]

I think there's only me and g40steve that's run neutral toe - i also found this to be the best compromise. personally i'd never go toe in on a the Trophy, it'll be very unstable under braking imo as the weight transfer will naturally increase the toe in even further - you'd be snowploughing down the road basically.

to me it sounds like the northampton crew have fallen into the same trap as most motor sport people - i spoke to a few before trying my set-ups and they were saying very similar things.

The people i used though - who set-up for lotus btw - talked me out of it. there number is in the garage and are surprisingly cheap - they'll travel all over the country also.

=D> i'm not one of the sheep!

Rears can be adjusted using shims from cup racer cars, look at one of those baby's from behind

 

[PPTom]

Scott, two possibilities here, either the alignment place you took the car to has really badly calibrated equipment, or your car needs some proper setting up.
The figures for the rear, both camber and toe are a fair bit out, the factory settings can be found on here somewhere but rear camber is 'about' -1.5Deg each side and Toe is 'about' 20min toe in. There is no inbuilt adjustibility on the rear, but as Steve says, camber shims are avaliable and certain companies have the kit and know how to diagnose and repair any problems i.e. bent parts. Just had a thought, a rear wheel bearing failure could cause rear alignment problems.
As for the front, stock is 'about' -0.5Deg camber and toe is 'about' 20min toe out, yours is set to toe in for some reason, the alignment place have either ignored the standard advice or not had it to hand. You could get camber bolts so that your camber could be matched both sides, this could be one of the things causing the pulling to the left.
Bare in mind that you could be looking at over £150 to have the front end set up (toe and camber) plus the cost of camber bolts.
Rear I wouldn't like to guess at in terms of price, though it may be worth sending a message to funkymunky (gareth) I've read a post in the past where he had his rear geometry changed:
viewtopic.php?t=2461&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
May be worth sniffing out a really good alignment place and getting the settings checked before you think about having to spend shed loads of cash fixing things.

 

[scott]

Cheers PPTom, ive found a good place not far from me, Revolution, they deal with alot of performance car.
Just cashed some shares in at work so as soon as they clear i will be taking a trip there to get it sorted.
Also as for the settings i have just noticed at the top of the printout it says renault clio sport 98-04? Obviously they dont have the correct settings for the Trophy, tossers! Even though i stated my car was a Trophy so i wanted it set up to the correct settings.
Cheers again.

 

[g40steve]

Look for a company with 'Hunter' equipment, your local tyre place may even have one.

 

[scott]

Revolution has Hunter DPS600 equipment, hopefully they will sort it.
Cheers
http://www.revolution247.com/4-wheel-al ... 441-0.html

 

[BenG]

When will you be going to Revolution Scott?
I may be going up there in the next couple of weeks. I know its a bit far for me but the roads on the way back will be a good drive to test out the new setup.
Either Revolution or Stuart Tams, im undecided.

Be interested to know how you get on if you go before me.

 

[scott]

BenG, i have e-mailed them about it, weather i get a response or not i might drive there anyway at the weekend and have a bit crack with them, if not this weekend then it will be next weekend. I will let you know when.

 

[Tonyment]

hey guys was just wondering if it is worth while getting mine tested to make sure its all ok in regards to the toe setup! i know its just been mot and serviced by renault but not really very sure weather the suspension is set up right? is there any way of telling if the set up is good or not? other than the way it feels thanks

 

[BenG]

Its always worth getting it checked.
Unless the geometry is far out you probably wont notice, Chances are it wont be spot on tho. But unless your having any steering problems I wouldnt put it on top of the 'to do' list.

 

[Tonyment]

well on the test drive it felt amazing but i have never drove a trophy before i have drove some 182 /cups tho!! Is there anything specific i should look out for when it come to the steering! Cheers

 

[Cue]

Tony, firstly - have you registered in the owners register yet - a 3rd star is awaiting.

Secondly, there only 3 things to look for if deciding to get it done
1. does it understeer/oversteer alot - check the tyres first. It should be fairly neutral at 8/10's
2. do you get a lot of torque steer under hard acceleration?
3. Do you veer to one side under hard braking?

Yes to any of the above may mean the tracking is out.

If you want to optimise the handling then get the it looked at also, but most people won't get near the limits of the car on the road so i'd only say to look at camber and toes settings if you're doing any track work etc.

 

[scott]

When will you be going to Revolution Scott?
I may be going up there in the next couple of weeks. I know its a bit far for me but the roads on the way back will be a good drive to test out the new setup.
Either Revolution or Stuart Tams, im undecided.

Be interested to know how you get on if you go before me.

Ben, Revolution responded to my email and said they are fully booked for approx 1 week from today, im going to drive there after work tomorrow and get it booked in. I thought it would be hard to find as its been relocated since the last time i was there but it was very easy, its only about 2 mins away from the Metro Centre, about 10mins away from my house so happy days .

 

[BenG]

Thats good.
Im 2.5 hours away ! I need mine booking in asap but im waiting for my camber bolts to arrive first.
Im tempted to book myself in with there being a weeks wait but if my camber bolts done arrive Id have to cancel.

Let me know how you get on Scott.

Are you going for the standard geometry setup or are you changing it slightly ?

 

[scott]

I drove there today and booked it in for next friday, 1pm.
I asked them to put it on and advise on what they recommend, im thinking -1.5 camber and 10mins toe out. Im not getting new camber bolts though just keeping standard ones.

Does anyone dissagree with -1.5 and 10mins toe out???

They said the highest they charge for any setup if £99.99 but that would be if they adjusted the rears also which obviously they can do on the Trophy as standard, he said it would be free to put it on and advise then would be about £30 to £60 depending on what they did, really easy blokes to talk to also, not like some people when they just give you yes and no answers.
There was some decent cars parked outside:-
New STI
2 x Old STI
172
Nissan 200zx, looked standard but very clean
Nissan 200zx, looked highly modded
New shape Type R with carbon bonnet
Few others also that i cant remember.
The Type R and new STI belong to Revolution, if you go on their web site you will see them, look alot better in the flesh.

 

[BenG]

How are you going to get -1.50 camber if your not fitting camber bolts?

Thats the exact same setup Im going for.

 

[scott]

From what ive picked up from the search function on the standard bolts -1.50 is about the max you can get with the standard set up being approx 0.20 toe out and -0.45 camber, using the search function u find alot of different standard toe and camber settings. :lol: :? .

I will ask the lads at Revolution if this can be done on standard bolts but if not im sure they will set it up very well, from what ive read about them they sound very good.

 

[hoolio]

Machine the bolts, no thanks or you can elongate the holes in the damper, also wouldn't really want to do.