Thinking Of Getting One Of These Things

[Guest]

Hello all,

I'm David and I'm thinking of getting a Clio Trophy. I currently drive an Audi TT Quattro Sport (that I've only owned for six weeks!) and before that I had a Ford Focus RS. I keep reading about how great the Trophy is and it's gradually drawing me in. I suspect I could have a lot more fun than in the TT for much less cost. Back when they were new I test-drove one at my local Renault dealer, but I didn't pursue it any further. I remember being very fond of it, but other than that I can't really recall anything else. Are they as good as rumour has it?

Last weekend I tried a 197, and while it was a decent enough drive, it sure didn't feel like it had nigh-on 200bhp and I wasn't particularly fond of the steering or high seating-position. How does a Trophy compare to these in a straight-line drag-race? (I know it's not what the Trophy is about, but coming from faster cars, it is of interest to me.)

Is it a comfy car? Okay, it's not going to be a Limo, but an element of refinement would be much appreciated - I particularly dislike road and wind noise. Does it have the same silly gearing as a 197?

Last questions, I promise! I have a 'thing' for Milltek exhausts, so what are peoples' opinions on the one they offer for the 182? Xenon lamps: I would want them. Has anyone done it using OEM Renault xenon lamps, and was it easy to achieve? I know they'd be heavier, but it's not like it's going to be anything you'd ever have a chance of noticing. Anyway, why have a fast car if you can't see where you're going? Silly, silly Renault.

Over to you.

 

[Renaultsport]

Hi David,

I used to have a 172 Cup until i sold it to buy a Leon Cupra R 225... foolish. The Leon was a really nice car and smooth to drive (similar to the TT) however i was always missing the way the clio drove, the clio needed more attention when driving which is what i wanted from a car. I then sold the LCR to purchase my dads Trophy and love it to bits. Currently it has a Janspeed cat-back system which makes a nice tone (which the clio needs... Its too quite otherwise) however i have not heard one with a Milltek (although i do know they make nice systems).

I've got a mate who used to have a 197 and performance wise he didn't really rate it so he has just recently got a 182 FF (half leather seats, climate control, Xenons etc) and loves this more then the 197 for driveability.

I think jumping from a TT to the Clio, you will not look back as it will make you each time you drive it. You will find yourself going the very long way to the local shops...

 

[J07TROPHY]

Hi mate, i was in the same sort of position! as i was coming from other cars some faster ect but i have had a cup before! loved it so thought get a 197 but then i see the trophy! my last cars ect Vx220/ civic type r Premier / subaru sti8 /also had a fiesta turbo and civic Vti a long list of them to be honest i cant keep a car for long but i think the trophy is a keeper you wont want to drive anything else round the twistes!

anyhow about the milltek i have just taken delivery of one and wow what a system looks fantastic well built and all polished stainless and polished silencers :wink:

Good time to buy as some are going at very good prices

 

[Johnnytheboy]

Interesting. My "final two" when I chose the Trophy were that and a TT225, so I'll be interested in your opinion if you do buy one.

None of the TT reviews I read seemed to indicate it was much fun to drive...quick but boring. Whereas that line in the Autocar review about the Trophy; "What a car, what a bargain" says it all.

 

[Steve]

Hi David

The 197's don't seem to have much more power on a rolling road than a 182, and they're 150kg heavier hence the tested acceleration figures to 60 and 100mph being 6.3 and 17.0 secs for the 182 Trophy and 7.1 and 18.9 secs for the 197. Incidentally the most powerful TT (3.2 Quattro DSG with 250bhp) is tested as 7.0 and 17.3 secs respectively so I don't think you'll be disappointed with the straight line performance.

But, as you say, it's not what these cars are about, they just happen to shift pretty well because they weigh fook all. The Trophy is all about the corners and it's pretty unanimous that as FWD cars go they don't get much better than the Trophy. There are lots of quicker hatches and lots of cars that offer more feel and poise but not so many relatively new cars that offer such a complete package. The Trophy has it's flaws, it is based on a shopping trolley after all and the interior will leave you wanting after an Audi but I think the driving pleasure you will get from owning one will outweigh any of this stuff. The driving postion is said to be to high but I really have never found this a problem, I think the wheel is a bit big but generally the ergonomics are pretty good.

It's got a 5 speed gearbox and does not share the same silly ratios as the 197, to be honest I think the 197 has those ratios to try and mask a poor torque/weight ratio, the Trophy's can feel a little long if anything, it will cruise very happily over 70mph and road noise is not a problem, wind noise is quite high but no more than most hatchbacks with the drag coefficient of a barn.

Don't know about the Millitek exhausts but there are lots of really good ones available for the 182, don't know of a single Trophy owner tha has fitted Xenons, it's kind of against the ethos of the Trophy as they are a weighty luxury (actually removed for the Cup/Trophy versions). I find the Halogen headlights perfectly adequate in night driving.

Good luck and I hope you go for it, it's a decision you won't regret.

 

[Carnut]

David,

When I first bought the Trophy I wanted the Xenons as well but I contacted Renault re fitting them unfortunately it is not just the lights its the levelling sensor that needs to be fitted as well with the wiring. Xenons have to be automatically adjustable. It is alot of work and as Steve says it really is not in keeping with the Trophy ethos :evil: but the lights really are fine. \/

Nigel

 

[7MAT]

182 xenons are not much cop anyway.

 

[theo]

Once you have driven a Trophy, most other cars seem boring! Every drive makes you smile and it shows up cars costing so much more!

 

[Guest]

Thank you all so much for the replies!
I'll try and reply to the main points, so here goes:

Renaultsport - I'm pleased to hear you've come from a similar-ish car to my current one and are not regretting the change one bit! I agree that it needs a nice exhaust to make it that little more sporting - thinking about it, I remember feeling that it sounded a bit dull. Easily sorted!

Jonnytheboy - If I do go for the Clio (and it's looking that way at the moment) then I'll be sure to post up my feelings on the two cars. I suppose you could call the TT's handling 'boring', but there's no arguing with the grip it generates; it's quite quick through the bends. The steering is a bit stodgy and the brakes are truly awful, but it's not bad to drive by any means. Having said that, the general opinion is that the Quattro Sport model like I have is a fair bit better in the handling department than other TTs.

Steve - thanks very much for taking the trouble to dig up some figures for me; it's much appreciated. In doing so, though, you've opened my eyes to how big the performance difference is between the 197 and Trophy! With those sort of improvements I don't think I'll have too many concerns over the straight-line performance. The 3.2 TT should be fairly similar in performance to mine - it's 10bhp down at 237bhp, but it's a bit lighter (although comparatively mammoth next to the Trophy!) so perhaps the Quattro Sport would have the slight edge. I'm so pleased the gearing isn't like the 197 too!

The handling of the car is what I'm really looking forward to trying out. I've been quite lucky in owning a couple of really great front-wheel-drive cars (before my Focus RS I had a Ford Racing Puma - possibly one of the few other fwd cars that could rival a Trophy round the bends!), so the Trophy should continue in this tradition. The Focus was horrific on the road - the torque-steer could be terrible in places, but there was no denying it was quick; it was running about 265-270bhp at the time I sold it. On the track it earned its reputation as a great fwd car, though - it really was very fast for a ladded-up hatchback. The Racing Puma handled fantastically on both the road and track, but it was a terribly frustrating car to drive: the chassis was so good it made the 153bhp engine feel gutless. Evo certainly seemed to prefer the Clio to the Focus in their front-wheel-drive super test a few months ago, anyway!

I've thought of another question: has anyone fitted an LSD?

Thanks once again.

 

[hoolio]

http://cliotrophy.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... +slip+diff

Not much on here about LSD,do a search it throws up a couple of things, this might help a little. George K is the resident techy (no offence george) so it will be worth keeping an eye on what he says.

 

[Johnnytheboy]

Interested by your comments regarding the Racing Puma.

My previous car was a mildly 'improved' Puma, and the FRP was on my shortlist too, but I got the impression that it wasn't a sufficient improvement over the 'normal' 1.7 to justify changing.

 

[Steve]

EVO prefered the standard 1.7 (or even the 1.4), can't remember why. Trying too hard I think.

 

[Cue]

not much to add to this that Steve's not already covered, other than I do think that they should have added a longer 6th gear to the Trophy for longer journeys, you'l be pulling 4k revs at average motorway speeds.... Having said that I don't really miss it now at you'll still return better MPG in the trophy than your TT.

Having come from a 330Ci and currently own a Leon I'd say the Trophy is chalk and cheese. If i don't drive it for a few days I feel the need to blow the cob webs away on some backroads, eveytime i'm left with a wide smile.

I played with a TT in the leon on Saturday night on a particulary good road. It struggled to get away, in the Trophy I'd have just blitz it.

 

[Guest]

The 'normal' Puma and Racing version have quite different driving experiences. Purely as an everyday road car, the standard 1.7 car is miles better than the Racing Puma. Not only is it significantly more comfortable and cheaper to run, but it's also probably the faster car down a bumpy B-road.
The FRP's chassis shines on the track, though; it really is awesome. Around 90 or so of the 500 cars made came with an optional viscous LSD (my car was one of 'em) and these in particular were capable of going much faster round corners than any little Ford has a right to. In a straight line drag-race, there's hardly anything between the 1.7 Puma and the FRP. It has a 30bhp advantage, but the extra weight and drag that the wider body creates almost completely negates this gain. A Clio 172, for instance, is a good bit quicker in a straight line. And this was the car's problem - the fantastic cornering and braking made the engine feel inadequate on all but the most twisty of circuits.
The Focus RS more than overcame the power problem, but in doing so, it created a whole new one... torque-steer!

I sort of see the Trophy as a modern equivalent to the FRP - some elements of them are quite similar.

 

[Steve]

It's a shame they couldn't get the extra 30 horsies without the weight gain. Combined with the lsd that would have been one quick little car. Ford are a bit weird when it comes to matching power with chassis. They tend to underdo it (Fiesta ST 150bhp in a 1137kg car!) or give it so much it blows the competition away but ruins the sublime drving experience it could have been (Focus RS).

I drove my friends SportKa on Sunday, it is a car rarely mentioned on forums because of it's 94 bhp it's almost invisible to petrolheads, but it weighs only slightly more than a 205 GTI (934kg) and has a excellent chassis, I was surprised how stiff it was and it corners and brakes really well, it really reminded me of my GTI actually, that chuckability you only get with a sub-tonne car but, and it's a big but, 94bhp isn't enough to haul you out of corners the way you want it too and feels pretty gutless up hills, despite the lack of weight. I was two-up though with combined passenger weight of 200 kgs so it would probably feel better sans passenger. All in all very impressed by it, and it looks really cool in black too.

 

[hoolio]

SportKa it looks really cool

:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Steve]

Don't confuse it with a StreetKa, and you can't criticise the looks of a SportKa too much when you drive a MK II Clio! It's a sharp, coherent design with really good lines.

On this note, I saw a brand new Clio Campus at the weekend, for those who don't know, Renault are still making the MK II Clio's with the smallest engines for the sole reason that the 1.2 lump would not even get the MK III up to 40mph in a week! It had a revised front apron and rear tailgate and looked quite nice, the rear numberplate is set into the bumper much lower down leaving a clean tailgate and the vents at the front look almost Ferrari 599 like!

 

[Guest]

Those Sport Kas are indeed supposed to be pretty good. I've never had a go in one, but even the standard little 1.3 Ka is alright. 8)

Steve, I see what you mean with the power that Ford's cars tend to have. The Fiesta ST is another car I've never driven, but I have absolutely no urge to do so! I think when it came to the FRP they got a bit stuck. The rest of the car was costing Ford loads of money to make (4-pot Alcon brakes, 17" MiM wheels, Sparco seats, Janspeed exhaust, Tickford to carry out the conversion etc) and the 1.7 engine didn't have too much more room for extra power in it. The 153bhp that it produces is pretty much the limit without going silly, and so Ford's only option was to build the cars like this rather than try and over-stress the engine or get a whole new one completely.

But I think Ford have got it right with the new Focus ST (and the sales would seem to reflect that). It's a really great car and with a simple £500 remap you're looking at 270bhp and 330lb/ft. I'm not too sure about the way the new Focus looks, but the driving experience is pretty good. It's really different to the Focus RS, which is very much track-biased in the way it drives, but standard vs standard, there probably isn't very much difference between the two in straight line performance.

 

[Steve]

Good info about that David, I'm not sure about the ST vs. RS straight line though, A Trophy is quicker than a standard ST2 to 60 and not much behind to 100 (17.0 vs. 16.7), I wouldn't fancy my chances against an RS with the same power/weight and a lot more torque.

 

[Guest]

That's true enough, and the RS is supposed to have the slight edge, but not much. I would have to add it's all hearsay, though - I never got the opportunity to have a proper 'race' with an ST whilst in my RS. The RS certainly 'feels' the much faster car, but that's only because it has an old-skool turbo.
Evo's Knowledge figures for the Focus RS were compiled from testing a press car... the press cars ran different (more powerful) engine maps to the production models and so it is thought this is the reason why a) the 0-60 and 0-100 times were so fast and b) why the torque-steer was more apparent in these cars than in any other.