Polishing Cloths

[Nik]

It doesn't rotate, it oscillates, replicating the movement of your hand applying polish, but 1000 times faster.

"The Porter Cable 7424 features a random orbit (dual-action) polishing action for a swirl-free finish. While powerful, the 7424 will not scratch or burn even the most delicate clear coat paint finish. The 3.7 amp motor delivers plenty of torque, and the electronic variable speed control allows you to vary operating speed from 2,500 to 6,000 oscillations per minutes (OPM). For comfort, the hand grip can be attached to either side.

The 7424 is engineered to safely apply polish and wax in a manner similar to hand application. In a matter minutes, it creates a mirror-like finish and shine that would not be possible by hand. Unlike a conventional rotary buffer, the pad on the Porter Cable 7424 does not rotate, it oscillates. The "dual-action" (around + back and forth) motion occurs at such a high rate that the eye can not see the orbiting pad movement."

Check out http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-pc7424.html and look at some of the success stories at the bottom of the page.

 

[Comedy Si]

Yeah, still don't believe it...besides, what's the point? It's the wax on the paint that provides the protection, not how fast you buff it off. 2500 or 6000 oscillations per minute is a lot of hand waxing. At the end of the day, rubbing anything against anything else, always results in friction and inertia, and the physical contact between any two surfaces will erode them.

I quote from the site - 'The Porter Cable (PC) 7424 started life more than a decade ago as a sander for woodworkers' - SANDER; they used that word!!!! It sands by virtue of two surfaces rubbing together. Even if the plishing head is softer than that of your paint surface (which could be unlikely, given the paint manufacturing process today...) then you'd still be removing paint particles as you 'polish'.

If you buy a car from new, and look after the paint (clean, feed regularly) you do NOT need to polish more than once a year. Every time you polish you remove paint - it's the protection and feeding of the paint that keeps it clean. For brand new cars then, polishing isn't necessary...

Like I say, lets look at both finishes in 2 years time. I'll keep using Zymol and Swissol by hand...

Interstingly, on his site he quotes using P21S, which is a reasonable carnauba wax. Not great, but reasonable. If you look at any carnauba wax vendor, they will never recommend using machine applicators. It defeats the object.

Besides which, he is american...

 

[r-jay]

The machine will remove the swirls! As long as the car and pads are clean.

Wheres my Swirls Comedy Si?







Nik, modern paints are crap when it comes to withstanding the elements. I have had my PC for a few months now, its needed on Black Gold! Looking foward to seeing the results.

 

[r-jay]

If you buy a car from new, and look after the paint (clean, feed regularly) you do NOT need to polish more than once a year. Every time you polish you remove paint - it's the protection and feeding of the paint that keeps it clean. For brand new cars then, polishing isn't necessary...

Like I say, lets look at both finishes in 2 years time. I'll keep using Zymol and Swissol by hand...

I could tell what products you used before I even got down as far as reading Swissol/Zymol due to all the "Feeding Paint" which is a total load off bull! Paint cannot be feed!

Yes you car over polish paint, yes 'heavy' polishing removes clearcoat, but tests have proved it removes alot less than most people think. Mild polishes removed no clearcoat when tested with a paint depth gauge.

As for waxing I apply all my paste waxes by hand, PC is used for paint correction, polishing and glazing.

I was once bitten by the over priced zymol/swissol rip off. Please do me a favour and check out this place. It will open you eyes.

http://www.autopia.org/

 

[Comedy Si]

Fair enough...keep using 'em...but you need to polish because you're not feeding and protecting properly.

Modern paints are crap - and that is why you need to feed and protect. Using sanders doesn't do either. BRAND NEW PAINT DOES NOT NEED ANYMORE THAN A SINGLE POLISH AS SOON AS YOU GET IT. Then wax, feed and protect.

At the end of the day, it's your paint, your money, and your choice. I'll choose hands and natural carnauba.

 

[r-jay]

Brand new paint would not need polishing at all if stealerships did not install swirl marks into it.

How do you exactly feel you are feeding your paint?

Carnuba is lovely for looks, I have a whole host of brands I love the stuff, and its ideal for me as I wax every week and have a garaged car. Most people like something a little more durable.

 

[Comedy Si]

r-jay - lets just agree to disagree. Paint correction has it's place - brand new cars aren't that place. Old, beat up american heaps are that place. Any car WILL benefit from cuting back and protecting - providing the paint has been ignored to that degree. I do not believe any new paint requires, needs or benefits from correction - why should it?

 

[Comedy Si]

r-jay - I guess it depends on what you do with your wax. I too garage everynight, and wax regularly by hand (every 2-3 weeks) but I've not noticed any problems with durability. Beading in my experience is far superior on a high quality carnauba than any petroleum-based product.

 

[Nik]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying, but i'm not planning on going at it with and abrasive paint restorer on a weekly basis or anything. I agree excessive use will over time erode the paint. As you say, the car does not need it at the moment because it is new. The the first use I have for it is to treat an area of etching which will almost completely polish out, but would take serious effort by hand and risk further damage.

As much care as you can take with the paintwork and washing procedures etc. though, I dont believe that in 2 years time, your car will be scratch and swirl free even with a quality hand applied wax, unless its locked in a garage for most of its days. Mine is an every day drive and the PC is just a tool to help me keep it maintained and put back to a showroom finish a couple of times a year.

 

[Comedy Si]

Agreed. Obviously, in two years every car will have some form of swirls, polishing errors on it. That will happen to the best of us, and is obviously part of using any car. I too use mine every day, and is a daily use car, so it'll not be concours or anything like that. It is difficult with modern paints tho - they are so soft, and lets be honest, Renault's paint quality isn't the best anyway! Mine has a few impefections in it straight from the factory, but I can live with that at 13k! If I'd paid 25k for it, that would be different...!!! ; )

What 'etching' have you got - confused, what do you mean by etching? Is this some error from the factory, or something done by the dealer?

 

[Nik]

No it was something done by berry eating, acid crapping birds in the work car park (swear)

Came out of work to find a nice mess on the rear bumper and boot hatch. Drove home, washed it off with great care, and even in what could have been no more that 8 hours, it had marked the paint. So yes, i don't think much to Renaults paint quality.

The same thing happened to my colleagues Peugeot to a much worse level (although it was left on for a couple of days) so I have always been cautious about keeping the paint protected and choosing my parking space, but they still got me. #-o

 

[r-jay]

r-jay - I guess it depends on what you do with your wax. I too garage everynight, and wax regularly by hand (every 2-3 weeks) but I've not noticed any problems with durability. Beading in my experience is far superior on a high quality carnauba than any petroleum-based product.

I am a great carnuba fan and I prefer it over any off the the modern day sealants for looks. For most prople 30-60 days durability is not they want. They want long lasting sealants that last 3 -6 months are more likely to hold up to warm days in the sun.

r-jay - lets just agree to disagree. Paint correction has it's place - brand new cars aren't that place. Old, beat up american heaps are that place. Any car WILL benefit from cuting back and protecting - providing the paint has been ignored to that degree. I do not believe any new paint requires, needs or benefits from correction - why should it?

Paint correction as I posted earlier should not be needed on a new car in an ideal world. But bad prep by dealers installing swirls means unfortauntley with a new Renault anyway it is. This combined with the day to day marks you pick up, and the etching like that Nik has experienced means some polishing is needed.

I have not used anymore than mild polish/pre wax cleaners or glazes with polishing or finishing pads on my car, over polishing is bad and I dont want to compromise my UV protection by thinning my clearcoat to much. On the otehr hand I dont want swirl or marks and want my paint as perfect as I can get it.

If I did need a harsher polish/compound and a cutting pad I would use it, but once a year top. A few guys on cliosport have been hitting brand new cars with fairly abbrassive products such as Meguiars DACP, which is over the top.

A mild polish is all Nik will need to clean up the paint on his Trophy at a guess. I cleaned up mine using a very mild polish Meguiars Speed Glaze on a polishing pad with my PC.

 

[r-jay]

No it was something done by berry eating, acid crapping birds in the work car park (swear)

Came out of work to find a nice mess on the rear bumper and boot hatch. Drove home, washed it off with great care, and even in what could have been no more that 8 hours, it had marked the paint. So yes, i don't think much to Renaults paint quality.

The same thing happened to my colleagues Peugeot to a much worse level (although it was left on for a couple of days) so I have always been cautious about keeping the paint protected and choosing my parking space, but they still got me. #-o

Water based paints on new cars unfortuantley. But yeah new Peugeots are the worst I have seen for it.

 

[Nik]

Used the PC for the first time today. The plan was to tackle the etching that had been left on the rear bumper and tailgate by some evil bird crap.

This was what it looked like before i started. This was as good as i could get it after a couple of treatments by hand using some scratch remover.

I used the Sonus SFX-1 Restorer with 4" Spot pad to work on the marked area. I then did the whole of the car with the SFX-2 and 3.

Very pleased with the results, the mark has almost completely gone. Only I would be able to spot it now, and it would take some looking to find.

Since taking the photo's I've tried out the Pinnacle Carnauba wax and the finish is amazing. Got to clean the wheels and other stuff yet.

Will take some photos of the finished car tomorrow.

 

[r-jay]

Nice one Nik glad you got some good results.

Car looks lush already

 

[SteveC]

Looking lovely. I sprayed my wheels with AutoGlym Wheel seal, really works all i do now is rinse the wheels and with a Alloy wheel brush clean the crud off them then go round with a sponge in the tricky areas. Takes me 10mins to do them now.

 

[Ady182]

Looking good m8 nice to see it gleaming

 

[Nik]

^^ Never listen to this man. You'll end up losing hours of your life cleaning the car #-o

:lol:

 

[r-jay]

He owns a Black car what do you expect!

 

[Nik]

The neighbours thought I was mad when I was out there cleaning my wheels with a brush, now they must think I've totally lost it.