Clio trophy upgrades, NEED HELP IDENTIFYING!!!

GAZ 535 · Mar 11, 2012

Im pretty new to all this clio stuff so please bear with me as im a bit thick when it comes to cars.

I went to a ford rolling road day to help a good mate make up the numbers and my trophy ran 196BHP. Its a 55 plate and as i understood it completely standard. The place i went too were full of compliments for the car and the engine in particular asking what i had done to it but i haven't touched it, i have only had it serviced.

The only thing i can find is a receipt for a replacement cam belt and it comes too about £900 which think is quite a lot for a belt, correct me if i am wrong.

What sort of upgrades could it have? somebody suggested a re-map but how would i tell?

Thanks

Gareth

Johnny E · Mar 11, 2012

What model number is it?? There could be some info on the register.........

jenic · Mar 11, 2012

Price is probably just for the belt change, at a dealers it could easily total that.

Did any other clios run?

Chances are the RR over reads, for a true value you need to be running alongside other clios or go to RST/TDF who have a give more realistic RR figure.

hoolio · Mar 11, 2012

Saw this over on CS. In the same way that there are some very poor engines there are also some very strong and you could have one of those but even so that seems very very high even with engine mods. I would be looking at a run on different rollers.

GAZ 535 · Mar 11, 2012

its 391 but i didnt see anything on the register. no all the other cars were fords and they all ran what they were expected to or worse, nobody else over ran. I am going to get a second run on a different RR to see what that gives. the bloke who owned the place thought it would be cams and a remap.

I dont know about you lot but all the power comes really late on mine, i get nothing until 3500rpm then i get a bit and then at 4500rpm it just kicks me in the face. do you get a different respone? i will post pictures of the results up on here when i go back to my parents as i left the log book there.

Luke335 · Mar 11, 2012

As standard they usually have a kick at 5200rpm. Sounds like it has been modified but it still sounds like a lot for a 182. I have seen some talk of cams making good power on cliosport but people on here have not had those kind of results.

asim · Mar 12, 2012

You can usually tell if you have cams if you have a lumpy idle.

GAZ 535 · Mar 12, 2012

asim said:
You can usually tell if you have cams if you have a lumpy idle.

a what sorry? im pretty thick at this car stuff. One thing i have notices is when the engines cold it revs itself to about 1750 and then back down again constantly until the engine is warm. Anybody elses do this?

hoolio · Mar 12, 2012

asim said:
You can usually tell if you have cams if you have a lumpy idle.

It's a RS 182, of course it's got lumpy idle.

Also if anyone can point me in the direction of a roadworthy 182 with cams making a reliable 196 I will eat my shoes.
BTW, what were the torque figures?

aucky · Mar 12, 2012

Rollers are definitely over-reading. I would probably be saying the same if it made 182bhp.

aucky · Mar 12, 2012

The £900 cambelt was probably done at a main dealer. If the previous owner took it to a dealer, they probably didn't know enough about the F4R to get 196bhp either!

GAZ 535 · Mar 12, 2012

hoolio said:
It's a RS 182, of course it's got lumpy idle.

Also if anyone can point me in the direction of a roadworthy 182 with cams making a reliable 196 I will eat my shoes.
BTW, what were the torque figures?

!56lbps, it seems like it the rr was over running but if mine was the only one out of 18 cars that put out more than expected? really?

aucky · Mar 12, 2012

Were there any other clios? Maybe the Ford owners were happy to believe the numbers.

hoolio · Mar 12, 2012

156lbs of torque is also pretty high, Like I said earlier it sounds like you've got a good one on some generous rollers.

asim · Mar 13, 2012

Mine also made 156lbs but with 184hp and that was with a custom map, cams, exhaust, maxogen and a reworked inlet. Although it was with a brand new gearbox and low miles on the engine so would've probably given a bit more hp with a few more miles.

Maybe Gaz 535's is just worn in properly with good mileage on it. Have Trophys been hp tested with higher mileage? Maybe they give more.

Sir_Dave · Mar 13, 2012

asim said:
Maybe Gaz 535's is just worn in properly with good mileage on it. Have Trophys been hp tested with higher mileage? Maybe they give more.

Mines got 182k on it and pulled 175bhp at Surrey Rolling Road - thats with a V6 airbox/Pipercorss filter, BTB catback exhaust, aircon delete & JMS '98 ron map. Most importantly, the cam timing was spot on & it had just had a massive service!!

For the OP to have got 196 it will HAVE to have Cams, exhaust, de-cat, & a good remap. Or simply be done on the Ktec dyno

What were the 'at the wheels' figures OP?

Cue · Mar 13, 2012

It's all subjective - if the Rolling roader was set up for ford tollerances then it's bound to be off for Clio's as the losses throught the drive train are different. Did you get the acutal output figures for the true, at the wheel, readings or just the calculated fly wheel readings?

All 182 engines are really lumpy when cold, due to the engines' lack of choke function, they tend to bounce at around 1300 revs for the first 5 mins or so. During this time its actually possible to not touch the accelerator, stick the car in 5th and still do 30 mph.

I've learnt a fair bit about RR's in the last few years, Having done a fair few and got very widely ranging results (162 to 198bhp with nothing other than temp changes!) I've concluded they're only as accurate as the computers data on each exact cars drive train losses (so not very) The only way of accurately gauging bhp is to remove the engine, stick it on a test bed and revs the nuts of it when connected to a dyno - this will tell you the engines output.

Take the figure with a pinch of salt and be happy that you probably made a lot of Ford owners jealous.

You may find if yours is sitting at 1700 the throttle body needs cleaning - 5 mins of a job to take off, clean and replace.

GAZ 535 · Mar 13, 2012

Cue said:
It's all subjective - if the Rolling roader was set up for ford tollerances then it's bound to be off for Clio's as the losses throught the drive train are different. Did you get the acutal output figures for the true, at the wheel, readings or just the calculated fly wheel readings?

All 182 engines are really lumpy when cold, due to the engines' lack of choke function, they tend to bounce at around 1300 revs for the first 5 mins or so. During this time its actually possible to not touch the accelerator, stick the car in 5th and still do 30 mph.

I've learnt a fair bit about RR's in the last few years, Having done a fair few and got very widely ranging results (162 to 198bhp with nothing other than temp changes!) I've concluded they're only as accurate as the computers data on each exact cars drive train losses (so not very) The only way of accurately gauging bhp is to remove the engine, stick it on a test bed and revs the nuts of it when connected to a dyno - this will tell you the engines output.

Take the figure with a pinch of salt and be happy that you probably made a lot of Ford owners jealous.

i got the figures for at the wheels aswell, i havnt got the to hand but it was 130 something, possibly 136. it is annoying that all rolling roads you go too give different results. I dont know if it was caliberated for fords only or not as there were 2 audis, 1 honda, my clio and 3 vauxhalls there too.

im not overly bothered about the BHP figure i just want to get an idea of what sort of upgrades have been made to the car so that i dont spend money on something i dont need too. your right it did wipe the smile off the Fiesta ST owners faces

Sir_Dave · Mar 13, 2012

GAZ 535 said:
i got the figures for at the wheels aswell, i havnt got the to hand but it was 130 something, possibly 136.

The clio 1*2 loses about 17% through the transmission.

So i'd say the car is probably more likely to be putting out about 165-170bhp ATF, which unfortunately is about right for a standard one - tThey usually chuck out less power if they're had a cambelt change done & the timing is incorrect.

FYI, these graphs are from Surrey Rolling Road - arguably the most consistent place around as they just do rolling roading, no tuning rights to brag about. These results were also from a ClioSport day, so the rollers were calibrated for Clio's, nothing else.

ATF

ATW

In addition, the car should not at any point idle at 1700rpm. If it does there is something wrong. Even on cold start it shouldnt really go above 1350 or so.

GAZ 535 · Mar 17, 2012

right, i have found the power curve and it is uploading now. I have contacted the previous owner who has said he had it chipped but hasnt as yet said any more than that. Picture to follow