197 Cup and Trophy?

[Cue]

feck me i lost 20k in 2 years on my 330CI !!!!!!!!!. adding 110k to a new car tends to do that though

110,000 miles in how many years?! :shock: That Halifax - Glasgow commute musta been a beotch :wink:

Wasn't far off :shock: plus most weeks were spent on the M6 and M1 :twisted:

 

[chiefsilverback]

People seem to forget that the Clio Trophy was a last hurrah, end of production special and now expect it to be a standard derivative. Wasn't it 5 years between the first 172 and the Trophy?

Undoubtedly Renault will produce derivatives and I'd suggest that they follow the model they are setting with the Megane with constant special editions. I think they tried to capitalise on the Clio Trophy with the Megane Trophy and failed!

From what I've read in this month's Evo the Twingo is where the 'go kart' Renault Sport will be, after all it's based on the 182 chassis!! The inclusion of an LSD on the Megane suggests a potential route for a Cup Clio and possibly at the end of production another Trophy with bespoke dampers etc... but again, from reading Evo I get the impression that the guys at RenaultSport know they delived something special with the Trophy and that it will be very hard to do it again...

 

[Cue]

People seem to forget that the Clio Trophy was a last hurrah, end of production special and now expect it to be a standard derivative. Wasn't it 5 years between the first 172 and the Trophy?

Undoubtedly Renault will produce derivatives and I'd suggest that they follow the model they are setting with the Megane with constant special editions. I think they tried to capitalise on the Clio Trophy with the Megane Trophy and failed!

From what I've read in this month's Evo the Twingo is where the 'go kart' Renault Sport will be, after all it's based on the 182 chassis!! The inclusion of an LSD on the Megane suggests a potential route for a Cup Clio and possibly at the end of production another Trophy with bespoke dampers etc... but again, from reading Evo I get the impression that the guys at RenaultSport know they delived something special with the Trophy and that it will be very hard to do it again...

yeh the twingo looks like it'll be the next hot Reno that gets the plaudits

 

[Steve]

People seem to forget that the Clio Trophy was a last hurrah, end of production special and now expect it to be a standard derivative. Wasn't it 5 years between the first 172 and the Trophy?

Undoubtedly Renault will produce derivatives and I'd suggest that they follow the model they are setting with the Megane with constant special editions. I think they tried to capitalise on the Clio Trophy with the Megane Trophy and failed!

From what I've read in this month's Evo the Twingo is where the 'go kart' Renault Sport will be, after all it's based on the 182 chassis!! The inclusion of an LSD on the Megane suggests a potential route for a Cup Clio and possibly at the end of production another Trophy with bespoke dampers etc... but again, from reading Evo I get the impression that the guys at RenaultSport know they delived something special with the Trophy and that it will be very hard to do it again...

yeh the twingo looks like it'll be the next hot Reno that gets the plaudits

Well, it's got a good chassis as a starting point... :lol:

 

[Dsturbed]

I bought my Trophy with the intention of never selling it so I didnt care about resale figures. The 197 is bigger and more refined (less fun) and thus a totally different car and that is why i didnt want one, small tin box cars are the best fun - i still love driving my Saxo VTR, because feels small, light and unrefined (even compared to the Trophy) and because of this it is fun to drive.

the 182's will always be more fun for everyday blasts than a bigger 197 RS, CUP, Trophy etc

 

[Steve]

I bought my Trophy with the intention of never selling it so I didnt care about resale figures. The 197 is bigger and more refined (less fun) and thus a totally different car and that is why i didnt want one, small tin box cars are the best fun - i still love driving my Saxo VTR, because feels small, light and unrefined (even compared to the Trophy) and because of this it is fun to drive.

the 182's will always be more fun for everyday blasts than a bigger 197 RS, CUP, Trophy etc

I have to agree, as much as I want the 197 Cup to be a brilliant driver's car, I don't think it will ever be another Trophy, 172 Cup, Williams or R5 GTT. It's too big. Even if it sheds 100 kg (which it won't, 20 kg at the most) it will feel too big. What is the point in a hot hatch when it weighs more than a family saloon and has to have well over 200bhp through the front wheels (not good for drivability and feel) just to haul it's fat arse down the road at a decent pace. Evolution, Schmevolution, that's a shitty argument, safety blah blah, leg-room blah blah, the 172 to 182 Trophy, now that's evolution, the 197 is a sporty version of a compromised (for comfort and safety) hatch, and now they're having to use the Twingo to fill the void that the 197 left when it decided to jump into the Megane's category, and without a turbo, oh dear. Rant over, bedtime.

 

[Day]

im think the 197 is a better overall car than the out going cars.

Have you driven both a Trophy and a 197?

O.

Yes he has - around brands hatch.

 

[Cue]

im think the 197 is a better overall car than the out going cars.

Have you driven both a Trophy and a 197?

O.

Yes he has - around brands hatch.

I took the 197 around Cadwell and my impressions were good. It was more civalised than the trophy. Sort of keeping with the argument that it has more of a saloon's feel than a hatch. i.e. it's easier to slide - doesn't bite into a corner like the trophy.

I'd say power wise it feels like the trophy in that it lacks a bit of low down grunt (I only noticed this on the track). I think the weight thing is an argument that's obvious but when i drove it i didn't feel this was the problem, I think the leap from Trophy or Mark 1 + 2 clio's to the new mark 3 is larger than even the leap from say a mark 1 golf to Trophy in terms of 'size' (performance is not in this equation). It's for this reason that the new car feels like it's grown up and lost its fun, were not used to it's size.

drive a 3 series bmw for a bit then go to the mark 3 - it'll feel like a little raw racer. go from a Trophy to a 197 and it'll feel middle aged.

End of the day, it is a good car, it's maybe the 2nd best hatch on the market now instead of being the best. I can only come to conclusion that Reno have left themselves a large margin to play with for any special editions of the 197 . lighter, turbo, better suspension????? If they ever did a loss leader again and used their F1 technology on it it would be a certain hit.