Trophy+Nos?

[Destined for Victory]

The additional power from a nitrous system can be very addictive and because its such a simple job to increase the power (quickly changing a couple of jets), most users decide to take quick steps up the power ladder. It must however be remembered, that each step places increased demands on the engine and transmission components, particularly if full power is used at low rpm.

By adding a progressive controller to a fixed hit system, the power delivery can be converted to a smoother less aggressive gradual delivery, which is not only kinder to your entire vehicle but offers many other benefits.

We offer a range of 3 progressive control units - the Minimax, the Max Extreme (street) and our top of the range Max Extreme race version.

Whilst a progressive control unit may not be ‘essential’ on all applications (low power increases for example), in all cases they are extremely beneficial and if you want the best and safest results from your nitrous system, then a progressive unit is an essential unit to have, because all fixed hit (none progressive) nitrous kits suffer from the following problems;

The initial power transition (hit) from a basic nitrous system can be so sudden it causes wheel spin, wheelies and/or clutch slip.


Deliver too much nitrous at low rpm putting the engine at risk of failure, whilst not adding as much as the engine could handle at higher rpm.
The cure for these problems is a to add a PROGRESSIVE control unit

Whether you’ve reached the limit of traction or you just want the safest most reliable nitrous system, a WON progressive unit is the solution.

WON progressive units are designed primarily to work with WON systems but they also have program options which have been specifically selected to get the best possible results when generic solenoids (as supplied by all other companies), are being used.

this is the plan i have in mind for the trophy though its not 100% thoughts and comments appreciated

 

[Cue]

paul of RS tuning is running 300 bhp with stock internals and a supercharger, so the engine should be ok, although i'd look at a stronger bottom end and clutch.

 

[Destined for Victory]

is he registered on here? might be worth having a chat with him

i would of thought a supercharger would put some strain on the engine especially being standard but then again i have seen smaller engines supercharged

 

[son of solo]

yep the Polo G40 had only a 1.3 or 1.4 engine.

 

[Destined for Victory]

i imagine supercharging costwise would be around the same as turbo conversion?

 

[DaveTrophy]

i imagine supercharging costwise would be around the same as turbo conversion?

Might even be more expensive than turbo'ing to be honest

 

[Destined for Victory]

i imagine supercharging costwise would be around the same as turbo conversion?

Might even be more expensive than turbo'ing to be honest

i thought as much thats why i came to this conclusion of nos

 

[Matt X2C]

As I wrote in the other thread:

250bhp with Nitrous is not 250bhp in my opinion - you can't go telling people you have 250bhp as when it runs out or when you don't use it, you don't! With nitrous you aren't going to be able to go round track flying past other clio's all day like you could with TB's, because the nitrous will run out. Its useless for anything other than drag racing, and the trophy is the wrong car for it.

Out of interest though, how long does the progressive kit actually last? Does it shut off when you lift the throttle? How much power does it actually give? I would be very doubtful of a 70/80bhp increase, as you only get them increases with the one shot that lasts 10 or so seconds for drag racing. Also, what else on the car needs uprating?

Not having a go, the first paragraph was my opinion, the second was me inquiring as I don't know too much about progressive systems.

Why exactly do you plan on putting NOS on the car? Drag-racing/Trackdays/For when you meet a knob on the road who disses your clio? Its not something like any other engine work where the power is there evry time, NOS obviously runs out.

 

[PPTom]

I think the target price for drive in, drive out is around £3500, thats supercharger fitted and standard ECU re-mapped.

 

[DaveTrophy]

Can you re-map a standard ECU to read boost? Thought you would need to invest in standalone management, omex etc

I'd stay away from Nitrous, but that's only my opinion - it all seems a bit Vin Diesel for me :?

 

[PPTom]

Thats the beauty of the Angelworks supercharger system, it uses the standard ECU. Ben said that to have the conversion done would take about the same amount of time as having the Aux belt changed - circa 2 1/2 hours. Pauls car at RS Tuning is the test car for this system, as said previously, he's now above 300BHP, with the standard ECU, though I thinks he's on different injectors and possibly a different FPR.

 

[Matt X2C]

Wow supercharger angelworks job sounds fantastic.

A fair bit more power than similarly priced TB's give you. I bet with the price of clio's these days you will see plenty of people buying a clio and doing these conversions as you can get decent cars and these engine tuning packages for less than you could get just the car a year ago.

 

[Streetfighter]

Can you re-map a standard ECU to read boost? Thought you would need to invest in standalone management, omex etc

I'd stay away from Nitrous, but that's only my opinion - it all seems a bit Vin Diesel for me :?

I agree about nitrous, but that's just our opinion and each to their own.

Now i'm going off topic so bear with me [-o<

Yes it can be mapped for that but i'm not an F4R expert - i'll speculate for example if the F4R already uses a MAP sensor then inherently it can be mapped for boost, or if it has a MAF sensor then perahps the fuelling can be based on the predictions from that?
All interesting techy stuff to me, so any one with more knowledge speak up

 

[Destined for Victory]

with superchargers yeah you have alot more power early on but then you probably have less power once upto a certain speed/rev range where as with a turbo youve always got a constant boost there, and matt yes nos runs out of course thats why you get the bottle refilled as you would expect plus theres a place virtually on my doorstep that can refill them and it doesnt cost much at all, i dont care if anyone disses my car or whatever im not that petty and have arguements about who has the better car ect if thats how you do things thats upto you.. i drive safe on the roads and save the fun for trackdays if you dont have anything constructive to say then why bother posting, anyway point is im not after instant shot nitrous i was thinking of progressive nitrous which shoots shots every few seconds rather than just one shot its alot more controlled no remapping is needed or anything so it would benefit me in the corners as well as straights as it delivers the power more smoothly a bit like the way a turbo does, but for a fraction of the price plus i dont have to worry about my gearbox as the power is there for 15 secs a time where as a turbo the power is always there which may cause some people gearbox problems also i'll be running something sensible like 50 -75 bhp which the engine will take no problem.

 

[Cue]

pauls car is supercar quick - although he's done as much weight stripping as is possible to aid the equation.... i've owned some quick cars and driven some really quick cars - sub 4 seconds to 60.... i'd say paul's isn't far off that.

He's restricted the rev range iirc - limit set at 6800, and it pulled all the way to there. I saw the mapping graph he used and it was still accelerating at the limit. SC is kinder on the engine also compared to turbo's as they tend to be more linear in their delivery - although there's different forms of SC's.....

PPTom - what type of SC is it, do you know?

 

[PPTom]

Not sure Cue, I'm still trying to work out where I'm going to get £3500 from! I'm a bit worried about the bottom end though, 182 rods look like they're made of cheese. I'd like to see some endurance testing before making the investment.

 

[Matt X2C]

with superchargers yeah you have alot more power early on but then you probably have less power once upto a certain speed/rev range where as with a turbo youve always got a constant boost there, and matt yes nos runs out of course thats why you get the bottle refilled as you would expect plus theres a place virtually on my doorstep that can refill them and it doesnt cost much at all, i dont care if anyone disses my car or whatever im not that petty and have arguements about who has the better car ect if thats how you do things thats upto you.. i drive safe on the roads and save the fun for trackdays if you dont have anything constructive to say then why bother posting, anyway point is im not after instant shot nitrous i was thinking of progressive nitrous which shoots shots every few seconds rather than just one shot its alot more controlled no remapping is needed or anything so it would benefit me in the corners as well as straights as it delivers the power more smoothly a bit like the way a turbo does, but for a fraction of the price plus i dont have to worry about my gearbox as the power is there for 15 secs a time where as a turbo the power is always there which may cause some people gearbox problems also i'll be running something sensible like 50 -75 bhp which the engine will take no problem.

You intend to use the nitrous on track? As I said earlier is it like other nitrous whereby if it hasn't run out then you can't decelerate? How long does it last before it needs refilling? 1. I would have thought nitrous wasn't allowed on track and 2 its dangerous I would guess. How do you plan on adjusting your lines and whn to apply power if on 2 consecutive laps you have completely different power.

Also, what power will you actually get? When you get the single shot of nitrous it gives good gains, but these progressive systems can't give the same gain if they last much longer surely? So if a single strong shot would give you 250bhp, what would this give you? 20 hp more per time? More/Less?

Oh and it doesn't matter how long you put more power through the drivetrain, whether its a second or an hour if its too much it may break.

Not having a go like you think others are, but i am not too clued up on nitrous and would like to know info on the nitrous progressive kits. How much exactly have you looked into this? I am interested to know more - but still think its a bad idea. If you want a faster car, buy a faster car. Spend money on handling instead. Don't be dissapointed when you let a standard clio with R888's go past you though :lol: (as corners and braking are where most of the time gets saved)

 

[SharkyUK]

If you want a faster car, buy a faster car. Spend money on handling instead. Don't be dissapointed when you let a standard clio with R888's go past you though :lol: (as corners and braking are where most of the time gets saved)

I'm certainly not going to tell you how to spend your money and mod your car but Matt's comment is a very valid one. I'm not sure how NOS would be welcomed on track (?!) but the upgrading of brakes/geometry/tyres can help massively. They say that good driving along with good brakes and grip can 'add' 25bhp to your performance... 8)

Either way, have fun and good on you for doing your research!

 

[Destined for Victory]

i have been talking to 2 guys at wizards of nos about it one guy which i have known previously, i have taken thier comments on board just like i am with the ones on this forum and ive changed my mind instead im in the process of having; new custom made uprated kevlar clutch, goodridge braided lines, drilled & grooved discs all round with mintex pads with the next on the list being the RStuner.

 

[Matt X2C]

Did they suggest its not ideal for trackwork then?

Mod ideas sound good, but why do you plan on uprating the clutch?