Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
152
Reaction score
0
Location
London
I took some time off work, was supposed to be doing some sensible stuff round the place. Kind of got side tracked, but said side track may of more interest to this forum.

Following from previous threads about camber adjustment amongst other things.

Day 1 Permagard treatment. http://www.permagard.info/
Not cheap though, £305 for exterior, windows and interior. However they did do a very nice job. I waited whilst the work was done (5.5 hrs..) a good book on fly fishing meant the time flew by. I did look up a few times, the two guys who did the car showed impressive attention to the small details, which adds up to a very nice overall result. Actually looks quite a bit better now than when brand new; not bad considering it has >21,000 under the wheels. Gave it the once over with the jet wash after the antics over the next couple of days, come up an absolute treat. Feels smooth as silk literally

Day 2 Mark Fish Motorsport - Camber adjustment and brake mods. http://www.markfish.co.uk/
Unfortunately for my wallet again not cheap, £421 all up. 5hrs for everything, including some pauses.
Camber adjustment was accomplished by machining away some material from the castor which attach to the bottom of the damper. Meaning the damper was left completely untouched and it was also unnecessary to resort to the (thinner (12mm)) camber adjustment bolts which I had thought would be required for 2' of negative camber (0 toe out by the way).
(Incidentally the car was at 1.5' negative front right and 0.5' negative front left at the beginning, backs were both 1.75' negative; front therefore way outside tolerances whilst back was 0.05 out (so left alone), go figure...)
Brakes, some Goodridge braided hose, AP600 race fluid and Mintex 1177 pads.

Results wise..... left Marks (very nice chap by the way, I felt like I had someone who was more than qualified for the bit of work I wanted doing, which is always reassuring (by the by he won the Renault 5GT championship in '85 about which he was very modest when I bought it up during our long chat (I also waited while this work was done)) heading north for a Cadwell Park track day...

Day 3 Cadwell Park Track day
http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/cadwell-park/
I booked with http://bookatrack.com/ (who were very well organised) £175 for the day.
Arrived 07:30 registered and briefing complete by 09:00, offered the chance to go out for sighting laps behind instructor to show us the basic line. Having been quite organised got down to the assembly area to find I was first in the queue, right behind the instructor so got a very interesting close up of the line; if not the braking points as we were touring round. A nice introduction I thought.
Then the day started in earnest, hadn't been to CP before but was aware of its nickname (Mini Nurburgring) and it reputation... Whilst it very tight and basically rather dodgy in places (you will be very lucky not to bounce between Armco type stuff...) it is very enjoyable. It is however rather hard on the brakes being a combination of fast stuff and some great twisties. Up over the mountain then up through the trees was an absolute hoot. Did I mention the Gooseneck, and the downhill section into Mansfield again very memorable. Whilst I gave the brakes all the abuse I could, within the confines of not being in a race, they were excellent, reaching the end of the back straight I was braking hard from about 115mph for Charlie 1, they were nothing but reassuringly solid (no change/fade at all) over 25 lap 'stints' by which time I was ready for a drink! The most impressive part about the brakes was the initial bite, quite savage if you are able to exploit their full capability (i.e. on track) when compared with the standard brakes which I have used previously at the Nordschleife. They are a bit squeaky but I don't mind that so much. Also quite a bit more brake dust, which is rather non wheel friendly if left on for days at a time, but I like to take good care of ruby so that isn’t an issue. (Noise and dust were mentioned by Mark before doing work by the way)
Camber changes were also to very good effect; it now feels pointier; the back end feeling like it was now more mobile on track assisting with turn in. Torque steer and tracking in road ruts being very slightly more pronounced.

All in all a great few days, the car didn't miss a beat. It looks great and drives better than new.

Now then; time for those jobs I mentioned, but as I am on holiday I think some fly fishing first wouldn’t be too much ask would it?…
 
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
421
Reaction score
0
Location
Leicester
sounds like you had a good time. Im planing on going to a few track days. Im not going to bother with trax track time as i want to do a whole days worth. I find a lot of brake fade with the originals. I will take them on the track first and then money permiting upgrade.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
2,687
Reaction score
11
Location
Brighton
Great post, thanks for that Neophyte (what are you an amateur in? Trophy's?)

I'm planning to go to TRAX and I can't resist the temptation of buying 15 minutes on Silverstone, just to take the Trophy round the same course as the F1 cars. I think it will be a good introduction to the track, why not make a fool of yourself in front of thousands of driving enthusiasts rather than just a few marshalls?

I'm absolutely loving the standard brakes and as they are more than adequate for road use I won't be upgrading the pads until they're worn out. What I have been noticing lately is just how much the car jinks under really hard braking, an attribute common to the 172/182's I'm told. It's not that bad just feels like you're going over a bumpy surface as you enter the corner...
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
634
Reaction score
2
Location
Surrey www.i4detailing.co.uk
Sounds like you had a fun packed three days (except maybe for the 5.5 hours of fly fishing reading).

Mark is a top guy and the camber adjustments make such a positive difference.

I’ve got the same M1177 pads and don’t find the brake dust too much of a problem although I did waxed my wheels with Poorboy wheel wax the day the pads were fitted. Great pads on track but the screeching is starting to drive me mad!

To clean the wheels I now use Muc-Off wheel cleaner. It’s a great product and you can buy it in 5 litre and even 25 litre containers. http://www.muc-off.co.uk/carmuc-off.html
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
1,210
Reaction score
0
Location
Surrey
Excellent post mate! An enjoyable read for a Friday lunchtime at work!

Interesting to hear that your camber mismatch was exactly the same as mine, front and rear! Now running -2 degrees at the front and rears left at -1.75, which has made the handling alot more accurate, if a little more of a struggle with cambers etc. How have you found the change on the road?

Nice report on Cadwell, really want to go and try the 'Mini-Nurburgring' for myself, but the prospect of driving over 3 hours there and back has put me off so far!
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
2,687
Reaction score
11
Location
Brighton
OliS said:
Interesting to hear that your camber mismatch was exactly the same as mine...

Urm...the plot thickens, can they really make the same (quite large) camber setting mismatch on two cars deliberately?

I don't know enough about this yet but could the setting not deliberately be dfiiferent from one side to the other for reasons of drivers bodyweight or something? Seems strange that they can be so far out of tolerance and by exactly the same amount on two cars that have been checked.

What's the cheapest and easiest way I can check the camber settings on my car? And don't say "have a look mate". I'm talking with some accuracy but without necessarily any adjustment. (I could have this done under warranty?)
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
1,210
Reaction score
0
Location
Surrey
I should have made myself clearer in my previous post, although my camber was out the same amount, the mismatch was the other way round to Neo's, with my NSF being at -1.5, and OSF was -0.5.

I took my car to a wheel and tyre specialist who carried out a four whell laser alignment check, I used to live in Worthing myself, and I know that DTS (Discount tyre service) had this equipment. I know their name does not inspire confidence, but they were a top quality outfit when I used to go there. :D
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
2,687
Reaction score
11
Location
Brighton
You used to live in Worthing, where abouts? Did you go to school here? It's funny you mentioned DTS, that little place by by the bowling alley and what used to be The Town's Pride(!) I took my friends mini cooper tyre in there at 6 o' clock and there was one guy closing up and he said he could mend the puncture and did it for nothing! I recommended the place to my Mum when she got a screw in her mondeo tyre and the same guy fixed it and re-fit it free of charge, excellent place, I might have to pay them another visit now.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
152
Reaction score
0
Location
London
drexel said:
.. i want to do a whole days worth. I find a lot of brake fade with the originals. I will take them on the track first and then money permiting upgrade.

I wouldn't rule out half day and evening track sessions; I find full days quite tiring, all that adrenaline at my age :wink: More importantly it keeps bills down a bit. When you factor in track fees, petrol, tyre and break wear etc etc

As to brake upgrades waiting, I think that is a good way forward, I never had any problems with my brakes as standard, I just got a bit carried away :roll:

stevegunnis said:
Great post, thanks for that Neophyte (what are you an amateur in? Trophy's?)...

Most welcome, had hoped others may find it vaguely interesting/informative.
As to Neophyte, my understanding was that it pertained to being a novice, which is similar to amateur. Seemed adequate at the time as I recall, not being an advocate overestimating/overstating my understanding or experience.

7MAT said:
Sounds like you had a fun packed three days (except maybe for the 5.5 hours of fly fishing reading).

Mark is a top guy and the camber adjustments make such a positive difference.

I’ve got the same M1177 pads and don’t find the brake dust too much of a problem although I did waxed my wheels with Poorboy wheel wax the day the pads were fitted. Great pads on track but the screeching is starting to drive me mad!

To clean the wheels I now use Muc-Off wheel cleaner. It’s a great product and you can buy it in 5 litre and even 25 litre containers. http://www.muc-off.co.uk/carmuc-off.html

The noise is a bit of down side, but for tracks like CP brake fade is an issue, so was worth the effort/expense I concluded. Can see some sense in having a track day specific set of wheels/tyres and brake pads/disks, but that is circa £1,500 if you want something half way decent.

OliS said:
Excellent post mate! An enjoyable read for a Friday lunchtime at work!

Interesting to hear that your camber mismatch was exactly the same as mine, front and rear! Now running -2 degrees at the front and rears left at -1.75, which has made the handling alot more accurate, if a little more of a struggle with cambers etc. How have you found the change on the road?

Nice report on Cadwell, really want to go and try the 'Mini-Nurburgring' for myself, but the prospect of driving over 3 hours there and back has put me off so far!

Olis, glad to be of service old bean :)
On the road it is more pointy, the steering feeling slightly weightier. Really noticed it on track more. Our cars are such good little packages :D it just dances with load of feedback about what is going on. The Radicals at the day looked like a right blast (particularly the turbo charged SR8 are they?) but they don’t cost £12.4k!
The 3 hr drive particularly before a track day is a bit much, we stayed here the night before http://www.blackhorse-donington.co.uk/index.htm £30 B&B more than adequate and about 5 minutes from the circuit.. Might be worth considering as an alternative approach to a day up there.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
152
Reaction score
0
Location
London
Ash87 said:
Great post mate v informative, but where are the pics!! :lol:

I knew there was something I had overlooked...
 

Attachments

  • _Q1H0641.JPG
    _Q1H0641.JPG
    1 MB · Views: 564
Top