Speed of ball joint wear

[quik5i1ver]

Guys, your thoughts on the below please..

My T was serviced a number of months ago and has since covered approximately 1100 miles. Today it went for its MOT and failed on a ball joint. So my questions are...
- Would you have expected a significant failure to occur within the space of a number of months and only 1100 miles?
- Would you not expect to see sufficient wear @ the time of service, in order to indicate that this would require attention soon?

I'm concerned as to whether it raises questions over the quality of servicing - I am assuming that Ball Joints would be checked as part of the 72k service?.. Alternatively, could the MOT garage be flagging it, in order to make some extra cash?

For ref, the service and MOT have not been carried out by the same place.

 

[marrow]

Hi Rich - I would expect ball joints to be checked at every service interval.

Did you have any symtoms that suggested something was wrong?

 

[Mark5290]

It could be that the ball joints were not checked properly or at all when your car last had a service or the last MOT, might be worth checking too see if ball joints are on the service shedule for the service you just had, if it is the lower suspension ball joints you are on about i seem to remember Renault having a problem with them which results in the whole lower wishbone being replaced as i think the ball joints are riveted to the end of the arm,

 

[quik5i1ver]

I have had an odd sound coming from that side of the car for a while and specifically requested that it was looked at during the service; I was told that they found nothing untoward. The sound was rather like a light, slightly spring-like metallic clicking when manoeuvring (not the top mount judder). I tried to work under what conditions it occurred but could not find a common cause in terms of type of manoeuvre, speed etc. Since a little while after the service, I also developed a creak on the steering. Again this is not a permanent noise, just intermittent.

I hope that by changing the lower arm, I will eliminate the noise, but I'm quite keen to go back to the servicing agent if it looks highly likely that they should have spotted it..

I took a look at the thread posted by Cue ages ago, which details the servicing items. It doesn't specifically list ball joints, but could one assume that this would be covered under steering or suspension?

 

[nickboazracing]

Sounds to me like they were missed on the service.
Something like this will wear exponentially as they wear, but not to MOT failure in 1100 miles.
It's unusual for a garage to try to rip people of in such a simple manner as it would be easy for you catch them out. Whereas it would be easy for a mechanic or technician to miss them on a service. However, as previously mentioned they may not be on the service checklist for the service you had.

 

[quik5i1ver]

Thanks for comments so far.

The service in question was the 72k/5yr major cambelt service and so I would assume that pretty much everything on the car should have been checked?! The dealer in question was a Renault main dealer, who I shall not name as I am yet to call them and chat this through, so it would be unfair not to give them a chance to explain.

 

[Gazza]

Hi Rich,

If you think the MOT garage is trying to rip you off then you should ask to see the parts they replaced or if they haven't yet replaced them to get a second opinion. I chatted to Mark fish about the ball joints when I had him check mine and he said they tend to just go, which makes sense from the wide range of different millages people have had them go. For example my car is still on original ball joints at 67K and fine.

If you think they should of spotted it at your 72k service just phone them up and ask. Knowing them they will happily answer your questions.

 

[is1]

"The dealer in question was a Renault main dealer"

Ahh, that'll be the problem then. The trainee technician probably didn't know how to check the ball joints.

 

[Cue]

I'd say they didn't know how to check the ball joints. They can go at any time in my experience. My n/s one went at 40k but my o/f one is fine at 45k..... I assume it's down to the local council's inability to maintain a decent level of road surface quality....

 

[hoolio]

Rich, why did you go for a main dealer in the end and how much did they take off you for what work done? You can email of txt as always

BTW their check probably consisted of waggling the wheel :roll: The wear is probably one of those things that accelerates once it starts.

 

[quik5i1ver]

Believe me chaps, I had deliberated over my choice of service location for a considerable time. The dealer in question came well recommended and they did a pretty good deal price wise; their service manager was very helpful, certainly not pushy when it came to advising on any items that may require attention, or simply needed an eye kept on them. I had always vowed never to take my T to a dealer, but with the good reports that I received, I decided that on this occasion I would try them out.

I will call them and see what they say.

 

[quik5i1ver]

Right, I called the dealership and their service manager put it down to tester's opinion. He said the ball joints are generally a steady wearing item - they should not go from acceptable to failure so quickly. He also assured me that the guy they had servicing my car was their best and to quote 'very anal' about every aspect, down to noting the torq settings of various fixings. His only explanation was that the guy servicing the car would have expected the joint to last at least another year, whereas the MOT technician's opinion may differ..

 

[j333evo]

You don't need to buy a full arm to replace the balljoint, it just unbolts & one from local factors is about £8. I replaced both mine as a precaution as so cheap when I fitted poly anti-roll bar bushes. Front end felt brilliant afterwards, all like new.

 

[Gazza]

You don't need to buy a full arm to replace the balljoint, it just unbolts & one from local factors is about £8. I replaced both mine as a precaution as so cheap when I fitted poly anti-roll bar bushes. Front end felt brilliant afterwards, all like new.

On a slightly different subject. How easy were the bushes to fit? Did you get the all the powerflex ones as per this page?
http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Clio+II+(inc+172+&+182)-426/1.html

 

[Matbrown]

You don't need to buy a full arm to replace the balljoint, it just unbolts & one from local factors is about £8. I replaced both mine as a precaution as so cheap when I fitted poly anti-roll bar bushes. Front end felt brilliant afterwards, all like new.

I couldn't find a mickey mouse part when i was looking for some a few years ago, the bolts holes weren't big enough.


Mat.

 

[nickboazracing]

Right, I called the dealership and their service manager put it down to tester's opinion. He said the ball joints are generally a steady wearing item - they should not go from acceptable to failure so quickly. He also assured me that the guy they had servicing my car was their best and to quote 'very anal' about every aspect, down to noting the torq settings of various fixings. His only explanation was that the guy servicing the car would have expected the joint to last at least another year, whereas the MOT technician's opinion may differ..

That sounds like a satisfactory response to me. And it's not the first time I've come across an MOT testers opinion on "worn" being different to anothers. That's the only fundimental problem with MOTs.

What is your feeling on what the dealer had to say?

 

[anth424]

my m8 is a mechanic and usually tests balljoints by checking for play on the roadwheel. this doesnt work on 182s cos they are so stiff. only till he moved the joint with a pry bar did it move and make the creaking noise that i hav listened to for the past month. my car has 29k on the clock and he needed heat on to free the bottom pinch bolt, it was proper seized. new balljoint in and its like a new motor the balljoint was from northwest performance via ebay

 

[j333evo]

On a slightly different subject. How easy were the bushes to fit? Did you get the all the powerflex ones as per this page?
http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Clio+II+(inc+172+&+182)-426/1.html

Hi,

Outer bushes are no more than 10mins each side once car on stands & front wheels off. Mine were showing signs off wear & distortion after 28k miles. Inner bushes are another matter, real pita to fit & on removing the old one would do another 30k easy. Size wise mine were the two larger sizes offer for both bushes but if doing again I'd just do the outers. As fir dogbine bush, I just took my original great condition bush stuck in vice turned rubber around 90degrees so the two holes were right/left not fore and aft, filled with tiger seal and allowed to set over night and refitted, much nicer gear change, less engine movement but no nasty vibrations. Though I recently fitted a short shift rod to gearbox which has realky improved gear change feel.

 

[j333evo]

You don't need to buy a full arm to replace the balljoint, it just unbolts & one from local factors is about £8. I replaced both mine as a precaution as so cheap when I fitted poly anti-roll bar bushes. Front end felt brilliant afterwards, all like new.

I couldn't find a mickey mouse part when i was looking for some a few years ago, the bolts holes weren't big enough.


Mat.

Renault will sell you them if you ask for one for a Megane just not for the Clio. My local factors had two sizes listed & in stock, one with 10mm studs, one with 12mm, I took 12mm as I would have drilled out to fit if my car had 10mm ones, it didn't.

Fitting was easy, 20mibs both sides, but then once you have fitted ball joints to the 'SuperStrut' (Precedes Ford & Renaults attempts of separating steering and damping by 10 years) suspension as found on Celica GT4 ST205 which normal car ball joint splitters are to small to fit round, most car ones are simple once you master the shock and tension method that is well know in GT4 circles.