new tyres

[benoj]

I'm thinking of buying a couple of Mich PE3's as the fronts need replacing.

Rears have covered at least 15,000 miles but have good tread.

Do you,

A) Replace the fronts with the new tyres?

Or

B) Switch the partially worn tyres on the rear to the front, and put the new tyres on the rear.

?

 

[aucky]

Don't swap the tyres round if you can help it.
Fronts and rears tend to wear a bit differently.

 

[j333evo]

New tyres always on rear on a fwd car especially at this tine of year means rear has more grip so much safer. Plus means the older tyres get worn then replaced with matching newer rubber to the new fitted tyres.

And if tyres are over 5 years old probably getting past their best, date stamp on tyre do if it says 1505 that means made on 15th week of 2005.

 

[benoj]

New tyres always on rear on a fwd car especially at this tine of year means rear has more grip so much safer. Plus means the older tyres get worn then replaced with matching newer rubber to the new fitted tyres.

And if tyres are over 5 years old probably getting past their best, date stamp on tyre do if it says 1505 that means made on 15th week of 2005.

Cheers, I did not know about the date of production! I thought it would be best to have the best rubber on the rear, stopping any potential tail overtaking moments!

Final question - Can I just swap the rear alloys to the front to save paying £7.50 per tyre change, or is it best to keep the alloys where they are?

 

[nickboazracing]

You can put the rears onto the front. It would be an on going debate whether or not you should swap tyres front to rear. I've never had or known a bad experience from it.

If it was me, (and I know everyone will have a different strategy), at this time of year I'd just put them on the front. However in better weather I would put the new tyres on the rear and put the rears onto the front to finish them off, then get another pair of PE3's to match.

I think it is better to have the fresh rubber on the front for braking traction at this time of year. TC should help keep the rear in check.

 

[aucky]

I think it is better to have the fresh rubber on the front for braking traction at this time of year. TC should help keep the rear in check.

Agreed. The kwikfit geniuses will tell you the new rubber should be on the rear, but in a clio (not particularly tail happy) and a fair bit of power, I wouldnt even think of driving in snow with low tread on the front.

 

[Luke335]

I agree. If you are a confident driver then it's best to have more grip on the front. If the thought of that scares you then put them on the rear and be confident that the rear will stay in check but you will have less grip overall.
No reason not to swap front and rear wheels.

 

[j333evo]

The information I gave was from a highly trained friend of mine who works as a tyre test engineer for Continental at MIRA, though his job takes him all over the world. For example he tested this years winter tyres in the Arctic Circle back in June. To become a tyre tester you need to be a pretty good driver but also educated in an engineering discipline & then spend years with the tyre company understanding everything about tyre development.

Given it's winter and the tyres mentioned are summer tyres for anyone to say it's about confidence to which axle the new tyres are futted, is not doing themselves or anyone else any favors.

All Continentals winter allocation of tyres is now sold out and even employees like my friend can't get them, he himself is running Kumho Winter tyres. His demonstration around MIRA last week in the snow was nothing short of breathtaking the grip he found in his own Mondeo. We managed to get some Kumho from him for the 500Abarth. The advice as always at this time of year is take your time, apply pressure to brake & accelerator pedals with care.

 

[Jonc]

I always replace tyres 4 at a time. I generally get around 12k out of my tyres and swap the fonts to rears at around 6k miles. By the time it comes to changing, the tread on all 4 tyres are near enough the same all round.

 

[nickboazracing]

Given it's winter and the tyres mentioned are summer tyres for anyone to say it's about confidence to which axle the new tyres are futted, is not doing themselves or anyone else any favors
.

What do you mean?

My opinion is that in the current conditions I would rather have better tyres on the front axle to help with straight line braking. I'm not really thinking about out and out performance, only safety. And I don't personally drive in these conditions (no snow here in Warwick) in a manner that I feel I may lose the rear end at any point, (taking into consideration ice or snow etc which can catch out the very best driver at a walking pace).

The key is, as you say, all inputs should be very gentle and smooth. (as it is all the time, but more so now)

 

[Luke335]

I stand by my comments. I know the PC line is to fit new tyres to the rear but this is a site for enthusiasts. The point I was trying to make about confidence is that only you know how you drive. If you like to work the car to the limit then you'll be looking for front end grip but if the idea of the rear end getting loose isn't for you then put the tyres on the rear. Obviously if you go mad in the snow then your asking for trouble but I don't really think that's what we're discussing.

 

[j333evo]

It's not about being pc it's about what makes the car the safest. You feel the car through the steering this is how you judge the roads grip, therefore if you have slightly less grip on front you reduce speed and drive accordingly. The rear by virtue of having more grip will therefore remain predictable and safe.

Should the front have more grip the rear can step out without warning making car unpredictable. You need tonconsider that when turning the rear wheels do not follow in the tracks of the front.

Braking in a straight line will not be effected by having slightly less tread, the stopping distances for summer tyres is pretty poor anyway.

This makes the car the safest and for enthusasists quickest in all reduced friction conditions.

This is all very basic stuff tbh & can't understand why it's not easy to understand.

It is only advice, no one is being forced to accept it, it's food for thought & do what you wish with it, but I hope I've quantified what I have said.

 

[benoj]

It's not about being pc it's about what makes the car the safest. You feel the car through the steering this is how you judge the roads grip, therefore if you have slightly less grip on front you reduce speed and drive accordingly. The rear by virtue of having more grip will therefore remain predictable and safe.

Should the front have more grip the rear can step out without warning making car unpredictable. You need tonconsider that when turning the rear wheels do not follow in the tracks of the front.

Braking in a straight line will not be effected by having slightly less tread, the stopping distances for summer tyres is pretty poor anyway.

This makes the car the safest and for enthusasists quickest in all reduced friction conditions.

This is all very basic stuff tbh & can't understand why it's not easy to understand.

It is only advice, no one is being forced to accept it, it's food for thought & do what you wish with it, but I hope I've quantified what I have said.

What you're are saying is bob on the money in my book fella.

You want slightly, and we are only talking slightly, less grip on the front. That way when you are pushing the car to its limit you know the front will start to lose traction first, I've never lost the back end but I'm pretty sure its easier to control a little bit of understeer compared to the rear end squirming about.

All the talk of snow and this weather e.t.c dosen't really come into the equation in my head. They are summer tyres and they will be pushed when the road conditions suit, which obviously does not include snow or ice. No road tyre is going to make much difference on ice, be it brand new or 20k old.

I would quite like to try the conti sport contact 3's which recently came out on top in the auto express tyre test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/t ... _2010.html), shame they do not do them in the correct size

 

[Luke335]

Fair enough, I understand what you are saying - understeer is safer. I prefer the car a bit more nuetral to tail happy and I'm sure I'm not alone. The trophy isn't exactly an animal in normal conditions. I've got winter tyres too and they are amazing in the snow!

 

[nickboazracing]

In the current climate isn't braking performance more important than whether you have a bias towards under or oversteer? I'm sure we all agree that as a mature forum we wouldn't be driving to the cars limits in these conditions, at least not on the road on a daily basis? Or is it just me that thinks that?

 

[Cue]

FWD cars - what stops you? what powers you? what controls you? yep, the front wheels, more grip on the front is the way to go not less.

RWD cars - the opposite, more grip on the rear is what you need.

I've just stuck two new PE3's on mine and to get the car to the tyre place I had to swap the well worn front to the rear as I could get out of the drive as it was snowing.... put it this way it's the first time ever I've driven a FWD car that handled like a RWD one. was a right laugh on the corners, not recommended though.

 

[nickboazracing]

FWD cars - what stops you? what powers you? what controls you? yep, the front wheels, more grip on the front is the way to go not less.

case closed? =D>

 

[aucky]

^Yup.

I'm currently driving a BMW 120d M-Sport as a courtesy car. Now THATS a whole different story, a tail happy, fun story

 

[j333evo]

I've yet to see anyone post anything of quantifiable evidence to support their theory, it's all subjective whereas I have given objective information as provided by my friend who is a tyre development engineer for Continental at MIRA.

If you were really concerned about how well you car handled you would replace all 4 tyres at the same time & ensure they wear at same time by rotating them in the spring/summer months then fit winter tyres as soon as temperatures drop to an average of 7 degrees or below where even new summer rubber is useless, hence all the disruption input roads at the moment.

In Germany legal limit is 3mm iirc some double what is legal in this country meaning mist change at 3.5-4mm and your insurance is invalid should you be in an accident in winter and not have appropriate tyres for the conditions.

 

[nickboazracing]

In the current climate isn't braking performance more important than whether you have a bias towards under or oversteer? I'm sure we all agree that as a mature forum we wouldn't be driving to the cars limits in these conditions, at least not on the road on a daily basis? Or is it just me that thinks that?

Not concerned with handling in the context I have been referring to throughout, just safety, as that is more important in the current climate.

And surely it's common sense?? Race engineers and fellow mechanics I've chatted to on the subject agree that in the current climate, on a front wheel drive car, you'd be better to fit new tyres to the front.

If I was concerned with out right handling, I'd have several sets of 15" rims with a range of different tyre types and fit which ever suited the conditions at the time I got in the car. But who does that??

I don't doubt what your mate says, but in real world situations, ie everyday driving, is it not common sense to fit new tyres on the front axle?