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[Gordon]

Thanks for the suggestions Steve. The cars on Auto Trader all have pretty high milage apart from the Munich Legends one. Which I expect, given it's been traded in at Munich Legends, has been on a track; perhaps all of it's 6k miles have been!!

Ideally I'd perfer a low(ish) mileage car. Which one is 369?

 

[Gordon]

Hoolio, I saw that one on the forum and the conversation around it. Art Dealer is probably right about what he said about the work mitigating the extra list price. Sounds good.

I want a totally standard car though. Bar a wiper upgrade and a bit of PermaGard :wink:

Modifications might be great for the track and I'm sure it handles wonderfully but I'm driving it on public roads not a track. I bet it's been hooned around a bit, fair play to the prior owner I bet they had a gas but it's not for me.

Talking about 'minor' upgrades. Is the air filter that everyone talks about ITC? HTC? just a replacement free flow filter for the standard air box or is it a whole new system and hoses and the filter?

 

[Gordon]

Okay. It's ITG, answered my own question. They supply both kits and replacement filters.

Anyone just changed a filter and noticed a difference?

 

[Cue]

Okay. It's ITG, answered my own question. They supply both kits and replacement filters.

Anyone just changed a filter and noticed a difference?

it doesn't make a a noticeable difference imo, sounds slightly better and throttle responce may be better but that's about it.

I've one going spare now - £30 and it's yours. When you get the car obviously :wink:

 

[160dmb]

HI, prob shouldn't get involved in this thread as the "suspension modified car" was mine, but I thought I'd just put a note in even though Steve is now selling it.

I bought it with 10,300 (ish) miles on it and always planned to use it to drive to a track, to learn the track before going there in my race car (A Rover Mini), then drive the Trophy home, hence I decided to invest the cash in suspension (springs and geometry) and brakes (pads and braided hoses) just to make sure it was reliable and consistent.

As I come to sell it I have put less than 3,000 miles on it, and it's never even been in a track car park, let alone a pitlane or circuit because my race instructors have always said it's better to learn the circuit in my race car (to ensure I get the correct braking/gear change points) rather than learning how to drive a Clio around a circuit before racing a Mini.

It spent almost all of it's time with me either going to the train station, sitting on the driveway or being used as a third car at the weekends.

It had the simple things like wiper stalk done so that it was pratical, and is only very marginally stiffer than a standard car. The biggest change came from the extra camber and geometry adjustments, so if anyone's thinking of doing the changes be comfortable that the ride is only just a little stiffer, but the change in the way the car turns in to bends is remarkable.

The best chance any potential buyer will ever have is to go visit Steve at allvehicles and drive a (subtly) modified one and a standard one back to back. I have (and so has Steve) but if anyone wants to see if we are telling the truth I guess the best way is for them to find out for themselves rather than guessing and posting their views on this forum.

Just to be clear Steve at allvehicles is selling it now, so I can be pretty objective but someone is going to buy #319 and think all Trophy's handle like that, and they don't. The improvement is pretty impressive

The car is perfectly standard engine wise because it wasn't built for hooning around, and although it's set up for the purpose of being a fast road/trackday car it's not been near a track in my (or I believe the previous owners) ownership.

Go check, I bet you'll be pleasantly suprised.

 

[shiftspark]

I want a totally standard car though. Bar a wiper upgrade and a bit of PermaGard :wink:

This looks ideal then :wink:

http://cliotrophy.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5183

 

[Gordon]

160dmb, really appreciate the overview and your transparent perspective on car 319. It sounds like a cracking car with subtle modifications that could, but haven't, been used in anger.

Mark Fish clearly knows what he's doing if springs and geometry have made such a great change but not made it impractical for everyday road use.

A great pity you weren't actually able to use it as you intended but your instructors are talking sense. Racing or rallying in the competition car is very different if you are conducting practice laps or the reccy in a very different vehicle.

I may well do as you suggest and take a look. Although I'm a bit of a purist I'm afraid and I'm likely to plump for a totally standard car, as good as 319 does sound though. I'm sure it will go to a very good home.

Again, huge respect to this forum and it's members, their transparency and honesty (I'd hope) when it comes to the Trophy. I've used some forums before and the chatter and possible dishonesty (certainly truth stretching) has been pretty poor.

Thanks for the insight and enjoy the Mini racing.

 

[Gordon]

Shiftspark, it does and I noticed it before. Looks great. I'm afraid a Manchester location isn't ideal for me to pay a visit and I don't want to waste your time and you add to the mileage meeting halfway etc.

Thanks for highlighting it to me though.

It certainly has encouraged me to go down the PermaGard route, cracking deep shine.

Good luck with the sale.

 

[Gordon]

Cue, I'll stick to the standard filter then. Sounds like little point in changing it.

In the Rallye they are not really worth it either. If you go down the whole removal road with the Rallye you end up removing the cold air feed and suck hot air into the engine from the engine bay which isn't ideal.

There's a whole post building if we go down this road...I'll leave it here.

 

[stephenhunter]

Hi,
its the one at £9250 (will accept less) with the new brembos and paintshield. Milage is 20100 and it taxed in my wifes name. We are both over 40 and the car is mint. It has completed one lap of the Ring in the wet and an afternoon at Spa, wet also.
Also one morning at Mondello in Ireland.
You can email me on stephenhunter@thinkpositive.co.uk if want more info.

 

[Cue]

Cue, I'll stick to the standard filter then. Sounds like little point in changing it.

In the Rallye they are not really worth it either. If you go down the whole removal road with the Rallye you end up removing the cold air feed and suck hot air into the engine from the engine bay which isn't ideal.

There's a whole post building if we go down this road...I'll leave it here.

the other pro for the itg panel filter i forgot is that it never needs replacing, the oem one does so in the long run it's a lot cheaper.

 

[Gordon]

Stephen, thanks for the details on your Trophy.

I think I'm very close to securing an 11k mile, one owner from new Trophy that's done no track work at all. Also at a highly competitive price.

I'll keep the forum posted.

 

[Gordon]

"he other pro for the itg panel filter i forgot is that it never needs replacing, the oem one does so in the long run it's a lot cheaper."

I presume you have to clean and oil it though even though it doesn't need replacing. Perhaps oil is old hat but K&N's came with a lube bottle.

A bit of a case of the lesser of two evils I guess. Replace paper or clean and oil foam, or whatever the ITG is constructed from.

 

[Cue]

yep, itg do a spray oil, takes 5 mins tops to do.

 

[Gordon]

Thanks Cue.

Another question. I drove another Trophy this evening. I noticed that there was quite a lot of play in the gear stick while it was in gear. Is this normal? The 'box seemed tight as a drum and a nice clean and weighty shift from gear to gear, but I was surprised with the amount the stick 'waggled' when you are driving along.

The Rallye I have has done 60k miles now and when in gear the stick doesn't move a mm.

Is there usually a lot of play or wobble with Trophy/Clio gear sticks when in gear?

 

[Cue]

there's definately more than my last full manual car (M3) but not what i would excessive.

 

[Gordon]

Cue, as per usual, thanks for your opinion. Any one else have views?

I was quite surprised. I didn't think it would have that much play. I don't think it had excessive play, as the 'box was very clean, if a little heavy in engaging, but that's as I would have expected with a 'box designed to cope with 180bhp+. Slightly different from a 106 Rallyes's 100bhp.

Perhaps it's just 'French build quality' and the linkages are much weaker than the 'box internals feel.

 

[160dmb]

Have driven 3 different cars and have never thought of the gear linkage in any of them, I know I would have done if they were as you are describing, so I suspect the only answer is to find another one to drive so that you have some sort of comparison.

Presumably it doesn't have to be a trophy as the linkage will be identical in a "normal" 182.

Am I correct?

 

[reboot]

I agree with 160dmb, never thought of mine, but admit I checked it when out driving over the weekend after reading this thread and while it does move a bit it has never bothered me and certainly doesn't feel different from my 182ff and 172 that I had in the past. Also had both types of 106 Rallye in the past (unmodified in terms of gearbox) and it certainly doesn't feel worse than those, but there was more than a mm movement.

Why don't you go round to Ren-Tech and ask them to look at it? Think you said you were near them somewhere......

 

[Gordon]

160dmb and Reboot, good point on comparing to another 182, I expect the linkages and bushes for the selector rods will be standard on the 182 models.

The 'gearstick slop' happens on my 106 Rallye rally car but the road car is fine. It does have a few mm of movement but literally no more.

In the rally car what happens is the 'box and surrounding area gets so hot on stage that the poly bushes get hot and expand, then as you are changing gear so often on stage the bushes wear. When they contract again when cool they never really go back to an original state due to the expansion and contraction process. Although the rally car has a new(ish) gearbox the selector rod bushes are original, there is loads of play when it's in gear.

In Chepstow forest in Novemeber the damn thing got so hot it popped out in my hand coming in to a 90 right. Couldn't select any gears at all. Simple design fault from Peugeot that meant when a plastic retaining band gets too hot it pops off. You just slam it back in by hand, then do a proper job on it with an bit of exhaust pipe.

The Trophy I drove did have a noticable amount of play in the gearstick, like two to three cm when in gear. Some gears were worse than others, I think first and second from memory. Strange for a car that is only just over two years old. It's usually 100k mile cars that wear like that.

An easy fix though I expect. Just new poly bushes on the selector rods, unless that means you have to take the dash out to get at it from the inside and engine out to get at it from outside.

If it's anything like as difficult as I hear changing a headlight bulb is there could be trouble. Bumper off to do that...what is all that about? Sounds like bad design too me.