Trophy suspension settings

[160dmb]

Can anyone tell me the correct suspension settings for a trophy.

F/R toe, Camber etc as I'd like to check all the settings on my car.

I suspect the 60% worn tyres are contributing to the torquesteer, but would like to check before replacing them.

Note that 7MAT seems to have increased the camber, I can understand the potential track improvement, but has it made much difference on the road?

Any other thoughts from all you Trophy experts out there?

Thanks a lot
160DMB

 

[Steve]

Gareth has a print-out of all the official settings and how much his car was out by on each prior to the adjustments - quite an eye-opener! :shock: should be along soon.

 

[FunkyMunky]

as Steve says I have all the before and after settings from when I got my car setup. busy at work at the moment but will do a detailed post this evening together with some feedback on how the car handling has changed too. i've been meaning to do a post but never quite got round to it :roll:

 

[George K]

This is all from memory - will not get to my files until, the weekend - also there seem to be more than one lot of official setings:

Front Toe-out 20' - Camber negative 30-45' NB; the toe-out on mine as delivered was 10', so I retained that even after changing the camber.
Rear toe-in 20-30' Camber negative 1.45'.

I am amongst those who have gone for 2.00' negative on the front and am more than happy with it for road and track, both in terms of grip and stability under braking. Turn-in is very progressive and consistent which is a big plus. I don't do enough mileage to assess the effect on wear, but certainly it seems to have helped preserve the outside edge of the front tyres in competition.

 

[g40steve]

Is this why when parked on my drive, i look at front wheels & they seem slayed out more than my 172 :?:

 

[George K]

10 or 20 minutes toe-out is minimal, so either it is an optical illusion or the setting is out,, the safest visual test is looking from the rear - does anyone know if the toe has changed from the 172 - in general FWD cars should run parallel to toe-out.

 

[FunkyMunky]

When i got my car setup the following was found :

Toes :

FL : Par
FR : +1mm out
RL : -2.5mm in
RR : -3mm in

Camber :

FL : 1.2
FR : 1.0
RL : 2.0
RR : 2.0

My setup has now been altered and is :

FL : Par
FR : Par
RL : -1mm
RR : -1mm

Camber :

FL : 1.9
FR : 1.9
RL : 2.0
RR : 2.0

Prior to changing the setup the car was unstable under hard braking and the way in which the rear became light was quite scary. One other thing worth mentioning is tyre pressures - after reading various posts on the forum i was running tyre pressures of 34 front and 32 rear, but as part of the setup it was suggested that I lower the pressures too. I'm currently running 28 front and 27 rear.

I'd had my car for about 5 months when i got the above done and it's fair to say i took my mine getting used to the power but still had a few scary moments (one in particular sticks in my mind where i was in milton keynes enjoying the straight sections inbetween many roundabouts and under heavy braking found myself weaving between two lanes, luckily the road was empty :shock: ) which were one of the main reasons for getting the setup of the car looked at.

Since altering the setup the car has improved turn in, and handles much better. B road blasts are much more fun and my confidence has increased and i've not had anymore hairy moments!!! I am by no means an expert in car setup but have found the above to improve my Trophy and i'm still smiling and having plenty of fun with it

 

[Steve]

Thanks Gareth, how long ago did you show me this at TRAX and say you would post it up? :lol: I have a suspicion that my settings won't be too bad because the car just feels so good and jinks at the back under very hard braking (not surprising considering the 2% weight distribution over the rear axle!) but remains straight and true.

First Permagard, then annual service then straight to race car doctor with these figures. After Gordon Brown relieving me of 190 smackeroons for the privilege of his potholes it's going to be an expensive November for XOG.

 

[George K]

Gareth - trying to work out your setting in degrees and minutes it looks as though the toes are in mm and the camber in degrees - is that right? Did he use shims to correct the rear settings?

Steve - hope you have got more than 2% on the rear - or have you found a new way of saving weight!?

 

[Steve]

Steve - hope you have got more than 2% on the rear - or have you found a new way of saving weight!?

Yeh, I exaggerated a bit, more like 33%, I seem to remember Donkey putting his Trophy on the scales and it being about 720kg over the front axle and 360kg over the rear? Anyway, it's a front heavy car and you know it under braking.

 

[George K]

In the old days - and perhaps even now - quite a lot of lightweight Minis raced with the rear brakes completely disconnected! Not that i am suggesting this as an answer for the Trophy!! Harder rear pads might be more sensible.

 

[OliS]

My Trophy came with the following camber settings: -0.24 degrees front right, -1.01 degrees front left, rears were both at -1.75 degrees.

I've been running -2.00 degrees at the front for about 10 months and 8,000 miles (and two trackdays) now and I am delighted with how the car performs. I've had no issues with tyre wear, I swapped the fronts to the rears about 4,000 miles ago, and there were no signs of any excessive wear on the inside edges of the tyres.

Getting the geometry set up properly is something I would advise all Trophy owners to think about.

 

[hoolio]

Seems like a daft question after reading all of the above, but is this why mine jinks to the left under hard braking?

 

[Cue]

hmmmn, one to think about. Will get mine loked at - it's steady as a rock but it's nice to know

 

[George K]

Hoolio - is this even on a completely flat road (side to side, i.e even when straddling the white line)? There are other possibilites such as a lazy RHS caliper, or the hoary old classic of the front toe being correct, but the track rods being of un-equal lengths - this normally shows up by the steering wheel being out of line, or requiring a different amount of turns to full left or right lock.

 

[hoolio]

Hi george thanks for replying, basically what i know about cars can be written on the back of a postage stamp and i had put it down to road camber but it has given me a fright or two and this thread has me probably adding 2 and 2 to make five. Steering wheel is fine, think i will have to do some hard brake testing.

 

[FunkyMunky]

Gareth - trying to work out your setting in degrees and minutes it looks as though the toes are in mm and the camber in degrees - is that right? Did he use shims to correct the rear settings?!?

Shims to correct the rears - yes.

toes in mm and camber in degress - i think so

 

[hoolio]

Hoolio - is this even on a completely flat road (side to side, i.e even when straddling the white line)? There are other possibilites such as a lazy RHS caliper, or the hoary old classic of the front toe being correct, but the track rods being of un-equal lengths - this normally shows up by the steering wheel being out of line, or requiring a different amount of turns to full left or right lock.

Have done some hard braking tests on a flat road with no problems, dead straight. Certainly the one time i recall it happening was on an old road with worn tyre ruts, this road also tends to throw the trophy around overtaking across these ruts so probably nothing to worry about.

 

[George K]

Hoolio, Glad all seems OK, - I used to live in your part of the world, and still work there. If you really want to check out the braking and handling drive from Wantage to Chievely - B 4494 - you might become addicted. I have only driven the Trophy along it once, and it made all my yardstick cornering speeds look pedestrian - my best drives used to be in a twin turbo Legacy. You might also get the front tracking checked - and reduce the toe -out a tad if you think thagt it is an issue.

 

[hoolio]

Was never seriously concerned but with so many on here knowing so much more than me it's better safe than sorry and after following this thread will probably get wheels checked.
Ah the B4494 that is a great road, discovered on a trip back from Avebury, was just pootling along it as i had C in the car and she tends to squeak if i go quick but something big and ugly behind did enough to irritate me so stomped in the go peddle and destroyed him on every corner, had not had the trophy long and i could not believe the way it stayed so glued on. The wallingford area has some great roads but those roads of yours in Devon are seriously good fun.