The answer to my handling problem...

[BenG]

Over the last 3/4 weeks I've been having a handling problem with the Trophy. Everything felt fine until I entered a left hand bend and I would turn the wheel but instead of turning in sharply the car would take a very wide path no matter how much I turned the wheel.
I checked the tyre pressures first of all and they were all fine. My second thought was that it was a geometry issue but I had a 4 wheel alignment done a few weeks previous and everything was great on a recent track day so I kind of dismissed that as the issue. The thought of it being the dampers was always in the back of my mind but this was the last thing I wanted it to be! After some discussions with friends the possibility of me cooking my tyres on the recent track day was high on the list but I couldn't understand why it would only affect the drivers side so it still left the issue un-clear.

I found the answer by luck! I was cleaning my drivers side front wheel with my awesome £25 wheel brush and when I finished cleaning the inside it came out black and covered in gease! I was gutted to say the least.
I removed the wheel to find the CV joint clip has come off and allowed the grease to escape and plaster everything in the wheel arch. It was only after cleaning everything up and putting my wheel back on when I noticed the wheel would make a knocking sound when I give it a shake, so I thought well maybe the bearing is on its way out, I grabbed hold of the wheel and really give it a good shake and the whole wheel moved back and forth, from +ve camber to -ve camber!
The camber bolt had come loose which allowed the hub to pivot on the lower bolt so when I go round a bend the camber changes whichever way it wants to. Scary thought!

I am really surprised I have not ended up in a ditch somewhere, or a coffin.

 

[marrow]

Crikes Ben, lucky escape. What now?

 

[liam1610]

Just a thought who did the 4 wheel alignment and have they adjusted or tried to adjust the camber, sounds to me as thought they didn't torque the nut and bolt up hence why after the shakedown on your track day you noticed it, its worth checking the other side while your at it just in case. Have you got eibach camber bolts if so will grab you the torque setting as there different from memory to the normal renault bolts.

 

[keith185]

Good you spotted that in time mate.

 

[BenG]

Just a thought who did the 4 wheel alignment and have they adjusted or tried to adjust the camber, sounds to me as thought they didn't torque the nut and bolt up hence why after the shakedown on your track day you noticed it, its worth checking the other side while your at it just in case. Have you got eibach camber bolts if so will grab you the torque setting as there different from memory to the normal renault bolts.

Thats exactly my view on it, however, it's been at least 10 weeks since the alignment so I hardly have a case. I do have eibach camber bolts fitted, if you know the torque setting I would appreciate it if you could let me know thanks Liam.

Crikes Ben, lucky escape. What now?

Well, first of all I will get the CV boot clip sorted, I'm assuming this has come loose because of the hub movement, then I guess I will be going for another wheel alignment, god knows what sort of camber im running at the min. As soon as I get the alignment done I'll be checking the torque again to make sure as I imagine i'll be paranoid about it afterwards.

 

[liam1610]

CV boot clips are common just fill it with more grease and stick another clip on, iv now done all of mine they just fall apart not a very good design. I would advise to get the other side cv boot clip done at the same time i found on mine i done one then a few weeks later the other side went.

Eibach camber bolt torque setting is 105 nm or 77 ft lbs, bear in mind this is for bolt number 81260 & 81270 iv got the 81260's and were from kam racing. Now i know the renault standard bolt torque settings are different but i cant remember what they are, i did have it written down somewhere will have a look round and get back to you.

 

[BenG]

Thanks for that. Do I need a special tool to fit the CV boot clips?

 

[liam1610]

http://www.ccw-tools.com/product.asp?st ... re+Details

This will do it, you only need to crush the clip to pull it tight so don't go too mad as you can break the clip. Halfords will no doubt sell this tool too but usually for more money, ideally pop to your local motor factors they will have a tool and clip and can explain how to fit the clip too there pretty basic though.

 

[hoolio]

Good to hear you've sorted the problem Ben, I was pretty stumped and though I also thought tyres it didn't follow that it was just the one direction. Do the bolts not have nylock(?) nuts?

 

[BenG]

Yes they have nyloc nuts but they have been removed and fitted 3 or 4 times so they wont grip as well as they used to, still, they should not have come loose.
I tightened them up today and all is normal again, it took a few miles to re-gain my confidence in cornering

 

[George K]

Ben, depending on the quality of the bolts, you may be able to use more torque - in which case the nuts could be the weak link - best are kaynuts or spiraloc. I guess the Eibach bolts are net 12mm - I use a 12.9 aero grade bolt on 12.7 mm diameter, and with a spiraloc nut I am able to go to 180 NM. On the other hand, a normal quality bolt could well be down at the 105 Nm mentioned. Spiraloc have a website to help clarify this.

 

[George K]

PS - don't forget that if the camber has changed, the toe will need checking.

 

[BenG]

Thanks George.

They are infact Whiteline camber bolts, I got it wrong before, without looking i'm guessing they are M12. The website recommends a torque setting of 74nM for M12 and 105nM for M14. The manufactures torque setting for the strut to swivel-hub bolts is 105nM. I noticed the camber bolts were well coated in copper grease which perhaps caused them to slip?

I will be looking at getting the geometry reset very soon, after refitting the bolts the steering wheel is now way off central.

 

[BenG]

I phoned up Renault to price up a new CV boot. I was under the impression you had to buy the whole kit (boot, clips and grease) just for the proper clips. £48 + VAT !

I told the guy I only needed the clips and he said they keep them in stock, as well as tubes of grease, clips are around 90p each.

Much better.

 

[Max]

Glad you got it sorted Ben, when's your next track day then? Let me know.....

When I had my dampers done before I sold up I noticed a CV boot clip had come off, must be a common fault.

 

[BenG]

Sometime very soon Max, the car is almost up and running .

It will probably be at croft again, I could do with some track wheels/tyres.