Starting Problems

[480bhp.com]

I thought i'd give this a whirl on here rather than Cliosport, seeing as i know i'll be bombardered by answers like "Its your Tdc sensor"

Now i'm not saying it isn't that, but i'm looking for someone to answer who has been through the exact same problem :wink:

Turn on ign, everything lights up that should and goes out as it should, turn the key too start and all you can hear is either the starter soleniod click once or it's the starter relay, just one click and nothing.

Turn off and try again, now it's either the same outcome as above or the car starts as normal :?

Sometimes when it's running if you turn it off, and then try too start again you get the same problem, while other times it could start 10 times in a row, even with 20 minutes or so in between each attempt.

I've got my own thought on what it could be, but if anyone has had the exact same fault then i'd like to hear what the repair was. Oh and the car will bump fine and on the one occasion i tried jumping it from another battery it was fine.

Chris

 

[hoolio]

Not TDC, engine would be turning over but not firing. Earthing problem?

 

[480bhp.com]

Not TDC, engine would be turning over but not firing. Earthing problem?

Correctamondo
That's why i didn't want too post on Cliosport.

I agree with you though J, and earth fault was my 1st thought, but as far as i've seen there's only 2, and earth strap from the power steering hose bracket (bottom right of engine bay) to the chassis and then one from the battery to chassis. I'm pretty sure it won't be either of those as both have been removed and refitted over the last 2 journeys (you never know though, cant be ruled out till i've checked)

So is there any more earths on the car, it could also be a bad connection to the starter motor, so i've got that too check too #-o

Chris

 

[hoolio]

The 5GT turbo is a very steep learning curve.

Think I'd just be checking it all, starter motor should be fun :wink:

 

[480bhp.com]

The thing that bugs me about all these minor problems, is the best way too sort them is a full strip down of the car and rebuild, exactly what i have planned for winter, but yet all these niggly faults keep popping up meaning i'm spending time removing parts and refitting them, when ideally they want to be removed, cleaned and then painted before refitting, but i just don't have the time in between trackdays :evil:

Oh well another few hours in the garage tomorrow, preping the car for Rockingham Sunday

Chris

 

[BenG]

Chris, I expect you will be able to figure out this diagram. Its the wiring diagram for starter motor etc. Its from a MK2 Clio Haynes Manual 2001 - 2004 but I am confident in saying it will be wired the same or very similar in the Trophy.

The rectangles with diagnal lines inside are the Solenoid Actuators.

This may or may not be of any use to you ?

 

[hoolio]

Whoa scary, really must stop brainfreeze as soon as I see one of those.

 

[BenG]

Im an electrician so its easy for me to understand. I would be no good at my job if it wasn't

 

[hoolio]

Thing is I know if I tried, it would be "oh that's not scary at all"

 

[BenG]

Once you understand what all the different electrical components do and how they affect the circuit its alot easier.

 

[g40steve]

My 172 had a similar problem.

Garage replaced live & earth from starter fixed it for me, one was braking down??

 

[power ranger]

Just to let you know in future you really shouldn't bump or jump start these cars!

 

[Ajr]

As you can see from the diagram, these cars use a timer on the starter motor too, this stops idiots from keeping the motor engaged when the engine is started. This could cause problems, but yours sounds like it could be the battery or an earth.

I had a battery on a saxo vts that had been in the car from the factory(5 years or so) and some days it would be fine, some days the starter would click and you'd have to hold the ignition to start for a few seconds before the starter kicked into action. Turns out when testing it that the battery was dropping a cell when put under load so was giving 8v or thereabouts then would kick into action again. At face value it showed 12.6v so without testing it under load you can't really tell whether a battery works or not.

If you've tried a spare battery then i'd look at the power supply and earth to the starter/engine block.

 

[Cue]

Just to let you know in future you really shouldn't bump or jump start these cars!

why's that?

my TB went after bumping the car, but i was always taught that bump starts are kinder on the starter motor....

 

[Jimbo]

My technical/mechanical knowledge is seriously minimal so a lot of the information in this thread goes over my head!

However I've also been experiencing some starting problems recently - nothing too serious I hope.

Basically the engine turns over and catches as normal, but then immediately dies, as if once the starter motor cuts out there's not quite enough fuel to keep the engine going. It doesn't splutter, just kind of... stops

Turrn the key again and it starts fine, and it runs fine, but quite a few times recently it hasn't caught first time. It's probably nothing but I'd hate it if this was indicative of a more serious problem... like I said my technical knowledge is practically non-existent.

Any words of reassurance would be gratefully received! [-o<

 

[480bhp.com]

Just a quick update on this starting problem, When i bought the car i noticed a repair had been done to the main fuse (one with goes to the starter and alternator) i was never happy with this but due to the hassle of getting in to replace the main leads i decided i'd leave it until i strip it down in the winter. Anyway this was the problem, the repair had broken slightly causing the 2 halfs to arc when starting the car, so basically if they were toughing the car would start, and if they weren't it would arc across.
It's unlikely anyone else will suffer with this exact same problem unless your main fuse develops an hair line crack.

Chris

 

[power ranger]

Just to let you know in future you really shouldn't bump or jump start these cars!

why's that?

my TB went after bumping the car, but i was always taught that bump starts are kinder on the starter motor....

As they can blow the ecu's due to sending the charge the wrong way! Its something i was aslways told from Renault! Not saying that it doesnt work just that you maybe the unlucky one! It normally falls in the bracket of cars from build date 2003 on wards!

 

[Jimboss]

Jimbo - your problem seems more or less exactly what i experienced with the missus 182 cupped FF. Renualt garages could not diagnoise the problem. Another mechanic said it could be the crankshaft sensor....so i replaced that and still the same problem....eventually another mechanic looked at it said the battery could be on its way out as it was only giving out approx 9V (although the battery check light was still on green) Changed the battery and the car was a good as new after that. good job as i sold it a couple of months afterwards.

 

[Jimbo]

Jimbo - your problem seems more or less exactly what i experienced with the missus 182 cupped FF. Renualt garages could not diagnoise the problem. Another mechanic said it could be the crankshaft sensor....so i replaced that and still the same problem....eventually another mechanic looked at it said the battery could be on its way out as it was only giving out approx 9V (although the battery check light was still on green) Changed the battery and the car was a good as new after that. good job as i sold it a couple of months afterwards.

Nice one Jimboss, I guess replacing the battery may be the way to go then - I've a feeling it's still on its original, so I'll get that sorted. It's not a major issue but any little imperfections get you worrying!

Thanks again mate.

 

[nickboazracing]

Just a quick update on this starting problem, When i bought the car i noticed a repair had been done to the main fuse (one with goes to the starter and alternator) i was never happy with this but due to the hassle of getting in to replace the main leads i decided i'd leave it until i strip it down in the winter. Anyway this was the problem, the repair had broken slightly causing the 2 halfs to arc when starting the car, so basically if they were toughing the car would start, and if they weren't it would arc across.
It's unlikely anyone else will suffer with this exact same problem unless your main fuse develops an hair line crack.

Chris

Out of interest is your car still starting okay? My immediate thought was simply starter motor. Will bare this problem in mind though.