Standard air box query??
- Thread starter Robh18
- Start date
Whats your power problems? iv only just noticed that you have been posting up, are you running the car in this weather still on vpower if so stop and run it on shell 95 ron, iv had issues with vpower in the heat and fuel evaporation since changing issue has stopped.
Anyway post up with issues, when this started and was it during the start of the warm weather as to me i don't think intake pipes will be an issue.
Anyway post up with issues, when this started and was it during the start of the warm weather as to me i don't think intake pipes will be an issue.
- Thread starter
- #24
My idle just feels a lot more lumpy at the moment and sometimes there feels a lack of power when accelerating.
Why would changing to 95 make it better surely it will always run better on 98 as that's what the ECU is programmed for ??
Why would changing to 95 make it better surely it will always run better on 98 as that's what the ECU is programmed for ??
Basically its to do with the injector rail made of cheep plastic, on top of that the fuel supply lines run across the top of the engine bay and yet again are plastic, these when the weather is hot these expand and create heat that usually wouldn't be in the rail, on start up especially i found with 99 shell the fuel it would take me a while to start the car and when it did eventually start i would get a misfire for a few seconds around 20-30 while the pressure rebuilt up. It the only thing i could think of as to why i had this strange lack of power running shell vpower and fuel evaporation its not the only car it can affect there are a lot of new cars have this issue, worst one i have worked on is a Ferrari 360 which to overcome this issue Ferrari designed the fuel pump to operate when you open the drivers door to build up pressure before cranking.
I also found on driving with 99 shell and hot weather the car would lag in power it was like nothing one min then lots of power the next. I had mine running using my work diagnostics systems and all sensors were working perfectly so it had to be either a fuel or injection issue for me.
As for why the difference in fuel stopped this issue i have no idea i guess its due to chemicals used but i will from now on never go back to using higher octane fuel in warm weather. Since changing over fuels the Trophy has been spot on every time, this may not be of help to you but i would suggest to run the car on 95 shell for a while and see how you go.
As for air intake if your still unsure on this then make sure the air filter itself is clean and not blocked and just remove both air box pipes and run the car without them this will stop confusion as there will be very little difference in power with or without intake pipes.
Failing all this other things i can think of that may cause a intermittent issue is crank sensor located on the top of the gearbox and reads off the flywheel, take this off clean the tip, the electrical connector and pins on the sensor.
As Aucky said they all run poor for 5-10 mins from cold, this is due to all the sensors not being fully used, the car is designed to over fuel on cold starts to warm up the engine till components are up to operating temperature.
I also found on driving with 99 shell and hot weather the car would lag in power it was like nothing one min then lots of power the next. I had mine running using my work diagnostics systems and all sensors were working perfectly so it had to be either a fuel or injection issue for me.
As for why the difference in fuel stopped this issue i have no idea i guess its due to chemicals used but i will from now on never go back to using higher octane fuel in warm weather. Since changing over fuels the Trophy has been spot on every time, this may not be of help to you but i would suggest to run the car on 95 shell for a while and see how you go.
As for air intake if your still unsure on this then make sure the air filter itself is clean and not blocked and just remove both air box pipes and run the car without them this will stop confusion as there will be very little difference in power with or without intake pipes.
Failing all this other things i can think of that may cause a intermittent issue is crank sensor located on the top of the gearbox and reads off the flywheel, take this off clean the tip, the electrical connector and pins on the sensor.
As Aucky said they all run poor for 5-10 mins from cold, this is due to all the sensors not being fully used, the car is designed to over fuel on cold starts to warm up the engine till components are up to operating temperature.
Just a thought how long was it since changing oil? what oil was used? you could have dirty or cheep oil thats causing a lag in the dephaser, also another thing to check is spark plugs if they have not been changed do them, there easy to do just make sure you get new gaskets for the inlet manifold as the only ones age and one is a rubber 'o' ring the other has been used for over 5 years now, i would also imagine your belts have been changed if not the timing may be slightly out but this would usually cause a lag of power all the time not just on or off.
- Thread starter
- #28
Thanks a lot for the help guys. My car had its major service 900 miles ago now so its got brand new Renault oil and I also had the plugs changed they weren't cheep !!! I will give the 95 Ron ago and see what that does for the trophy. Ive have owned two Trophy's and do understand they run bad when cold and the idle is not great due to the racing cams, however the idle has got worse since this slight temperamental lack in power and throttle response has come about.
Spoke to a knowledgeable mechanic on Saturday about it and he said for the lumpy idle check all engine breather tubes. He told me to remove the tubes and check tubes are clear and where they push onto engine check the hole is clear. He said to make sure when checking these holes there is a pin sized hole about 5mm in and this is what needs to be checked.
The mechanic also said check the cable running to the back of the throttle peddle is fully connected and the throttle body is functioning correctly.
Spoke to a knowledgeable mechanic on Saturday about it and he said for the lumpy idle check all engine breather tubes. He told me to remove the tubes and check tubes are clear and where they push onto engine check the hole is clear. He said to make sure when checking these holes there is a pin sized hole about 5mm in and this is what needs to be checked.
The mechanic also said check the cable running to the back of the throttle peddle is fully connected and the throttle body is functioning correctly.
- Thread starter
- #29
Just another thought ... the garage that did my major service i asked them if they could reseal the rocker cover as it was leaking. They sealed the rocker cover with Renault sealant and with the remaining sealant sealed the inlet manifold. If the sealant around the inlet manifold seeped out a little bit there would be a ridge sticking out into the path of air flow. I understand how important it is to have closely matched inlets so there are not ridges and the insides are very smooth. could this be a problem?
Sealing the inlet manifold is not necessary imo, that is what the gasket is for. Unless you were experiencing a constantly high idle then there is not an in-leakge problem.
Now you will have to scrape and clean the faces if you want to take the mani off to change plugs etc
Now you will have to scrape and clean the faces if you want to take the mani off to change plugs etc
- Thread starter
- #31
Bollocks !! Was a little annoying when they showed me what they had done. Was not experiencing any high idle or leaks whatsoever. Is it possible that the sealant could be protruding on the inside of the inlet manifold and cause a lack in power ? If so i will clear it on the weekend along with removing my AV and installing a new cold air feed.
- Thread starter
- #33
Yeah it came from around this time. I thought that you can get matched inlets and see gains of up to 10 bhp. If this is correct surely if the sealant is protruding even just slightly it will make a difference. I ask the garage about the timing and they said they stick probe things into the side of the engine and turn something and then lock it in place is this how you time 182's ? and how will i know if the timing is out ?
Renault locking tool, they at least used the right kit but I would say the timing could be out. The amount of ''specialist'' horror stories I've read about is shocking. Getting the timing checked shoudl be first port of call IMO.
Whereabouts do you live?
Whereabouts do you live?
I think you have found the answer to all your problems, who was it that did the service/timing? Matched inlets even with a remap will give you nowhere near 10bhp and though the sealing is wrong don't think that is the answer though may be worth getting cleaned up.
The one thing that puts me off saying that this is a timing issue is the fact that the lack of power is intermittent. Thats not to say it couldn't be, i certainly wouldn't trust Renault to do work on my car as there all under time limits, were as the places suggested spent time on your vehicle and do a lot better job. It might be worth seeing how much it would be to get the timing checked just to be on the safe side.
With regards to the inlet manifold and the gasket, as long as the old gasket was used with the sealent this will be fine, if its just sealent then get a gasket and replace the sealent, make sure you don't get any dirt in the engine i stick bits of clean rag down the holes so nothing can get into the engine.
As for your friend mentioning about the throttle cable, these no longer use throttle cables only up to PH1 172 was the cable used, this was replaced with a fly-by wire option, if you believe its a accelerator issue then i know the Clio MK2 did suffer with accelerator pedal issues and this was down to corrosion in the plug to the accelerator pedal, its an easy fix, remove the plug on the top of the pedal its got 2 prongs you push together then pull the plug out, clean the connectors and refit then try the car out, i had an issue with this but mine was flagged up under a fault code and this was on my old Clio not the Trophy
With regards to the inlet manifold and the gasket, as long as the old gasket was used with the sealent this will be fine, if its just sealent then get a gasket and replace the sealent, make sure you don't get any dirt in the engine i stick bits of clean rag down the holes so nothing can get into the engine.
As for your friend mentioning about the throttle cable, these no longer use throttle cables only up to PH1 172 was the cable used, this was replaced with a fly-by wire option, if you believe its a accelerator issue then i know the Clio MK2 did suffer with accelerator pedal issues and this was down to corrosion in the plug to the accelerator pedal, its an easy fix, remove the plug on the top of the pedal its got 2 prongs you push together then pull the plug out, clean the connectors and refit then try the car out, i had an issue with this but mine was flagged up under a fault code and this was on my old Clio not the Trophy
- Thread starter
- #38
Yes, the mechanic i spoke to said about the fly by wire on my model Clio and said that the contacts behind the peddle maybe doggy so ill give these a check. The mechanic also said that thee throttle body should not be making a noise when ignition is on however people on here are saying there's makes a noise so not to sure about this one...
With regards to the major service ... it was carried out by a place near me (Hertfordshire Letchworth) called Finishline who are one of the most well renowned car body work and spraying specialists. I know many of you now may be thinking wrong type of place to take the T for a major service, however they work in connection with the local Renault garage and Chris the guy who owns Finishline is good mates with the parts guy at Renault Letchworth.
They are perfectionists and completed the major service cleaning the top of my engine wheres the oil was leaking from the rocker cover. I know this doesn't mean the timing could have been done correctly but this could be possible even though they used all the correct tools and genuine Renault parts ?? Should i go back to the garage and ask them to check again or should i take it to one of the above recommended garages ?
This weekend I'm removing the AV and adding a cold air feed to sit beside the original cold air feed for some extra air. I will also take off and clean inlet manifold and try running it on Ron 95 shell and if still playing up i will get the timing looked at.
As fault finding goes do you think this is a wise route of going about it?
With regards to the major service ... it was carried out by a place near me (Hertfordshire Letchworth) called Finishline who are one of the most well renowned car body work and spraying specialists. I know many of you now may be thinking wrong type of place to take the T for a major service, however they work in connection with the local Renault garage and Chris the guy who owns Finishline is good mates with the parts guy at Renault Letchworth.
They are perfectionists and completed the major service cleaning the top of my engine wheres the oil was leaking from the rocker cover. I know this doesn't mean the timing could have been done correctly but this could be possible even though they used all the correct tools and genuine Renault parts ?? Should i go back to the garage and ask them to check again or should i take it to one of the above recommended garages ?
This weekend I'm removing the AV and adding a cold air feed to sit beside the original cold air feed for some extra air. I will also take off and clean inlet manifold and try running it on Ron 95 shell and if still playing up i will get the timing looked at.
As fault finding goes do you think this is a wise route of going about it?
Before I'd touch anything I'd take it back and tell them it runs worse since the work they did and question them about the timing.... As soon as you clean/touch/play with it they'll tell you it's your fault - if they are perfectionists they'll sort it out !
- Thread starter
- #40
Good idea i think i shall do that first.
I took it to them about 3 weeks ago and told them that it did not feel right and that the idle had become more lumpy. They said they will take a look and ran exhaust emissions tests to see if it was running too rich, when i went back later that day they told me everything looks fine and they gave me a print out for the exhaust emissions and said they were fine too so the car is not running to rich. I asked could the timing be out and he said he very much doubts it as they timing is locked in place. He said the only thing he could put it down to is a bad batch of fuel maybe.
I took it to them about 3 weeks ago and told them that it did not feel right and that the idle had become more lumpy. They said they will take a look and ran exhaust emissions tests to see if it was running too rich, when i went back later that day they told me everything looks fine and they gave me a print out for the exhaust emissions and said they were fine too so the car is not running to rich. I asked could the timing be out and he said he very much doubts it as they timing is locked in place. He said the only thing he could put it down to is a bad batch of fuel maybe.