People running Ferodo DS2500 rear pads

[Wheaty]

My rear pads need replacing very soon i've used the search facility and found lots of posts regarding brakes etc.

Now i know the brakes at the rear only take about 20%, so i was going to go for either the standard renault OEM pads or the Ferodo DS2500's which i think quite a few people are running.

So the people who have Ferodo DS2500 pads on the rear, which pads are you actually running with either the performance pad like from K-tec http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2692&appid=2

or the racing pad like from one of the below suppliers;

http://www.northwestperformance.co....ucts_id=157&osCsid=8g5pt96qop6gku5g3k4m441vg6

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2346&appid=2

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FERODO-RACING...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483d99c0f8

Any advice or other potential suppliers where i could get these from would be welcome.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Cue]

i personally would go for the DS2500's. In my experience cost savings to be made on brakes always lead to more expenditure in the long run by either higher wear rates of poorer pads/disks or expensive repair bills/insurance bills when they don't perform to the levels you expect.

5 years of trophy ownership: Rear pad experience - oem pads lasted me 2 years, changed to mintex - lasted 6 months, the ds2500 are not even 50% worn and have been on for the remaining 2.5yrs.

 

[Wheaty]

Cue - where did you get yours from DS2500's from? and what type of pad were they the FDS565 or FCP558H?

 

[nickboazracing]

I fitted DS2500 and oem discs with the view to doing track days. I haven't done any yet so kinda wasteful just for the road. #-o

 

[sideways danny]

Upgrading the rear pads is a massive waste of money They actually do less that 15% of the braking on a clio. If they did any more than that, the rear would overtake the front. Cheapest pads you can find of a reputable brand is the only way to go as far as i'm concerned. I Use Motrio pads from renault when people want new rears

 

[Cue]

value is subjective. As I said I got 2 years from oem pads - £50 ish? yet probably will get 4-5 years from ds2500's at £70 (what i paid).... I see that as a cost saving not a massive waste of money.

Wheaty - yozzasport, albeit a few years back now. God knows which flavour I know didn't know there were different varieties of DS2500's. What is the difference in them, compound or size?

 

[sideways danny]

From memory Motrio pads are under £20 and are supplied by renault

 

[nickboazracing]

They actually do less that 15% of the braking on a clio. If they did any more than that, the rear would overtake the front.

I find this an interesting quote. And while I'm not saying it's wrong, has anyone got definitive information or data on the bias? I'd be very interested to know. 85/15 (and similar figures quotes on other threads) strikes me as too much on the front.

Discuss.

 

[sideways danny]

The figures I'm using are from lots of calculations done with Jay (of Burpspeed) while he was trying to sort out the issue he had with excessive rear braking after removal of the ABS. He literally couldn't restrict the rear enough to stop the car spinning under braking on track. The temporary solution to get the car usable was to completely disable the rear braking. The car worked better than ever

 

[is1]

Has anyone found that DS2500s (fronts at least, not sure about the rear) squeal unbelievably?
This may be relevant for those who do mainly road miles.

 

[quik5i1ver]

Yup, my DS2500s have been through periods of intense squealing which I eventually managed to ignore.. I think they may have ceased doing it now, but it could be more a case of no longer noticing..!

 

[sideways danny]

Has anyone found that DS2500s (fronts at least, not sure about the rear) squeal unbelievably?
This may be relevant for those who do mainly road miles.

yes. You have to remember they're a track compound. I tried to talk a customer out of getting them, he disregarded my advice and insisted, then i got an earful when they weren't right for him and squeeled.

 

[Rick C196]

Upgrading the rear pads is a massive waste of money They actually do less that 15% of the braking on a clio. If they did any more than that, the rear would overtake the front.

I've upgraded only the front on mine (Pagid Blues) and the bias is now massively out, the fronts were locking up even in the dry (amazing those Pagids)

I need to upgrade the rears as well to re-balance the brake bias.

In any well-setup track car, the fronts should lock up just before the rears, otherwise you're not maximising your braking performance.

 

[sideways danny]

if you're locking up that easily with just adding Pagids (which are fine, but not THAT good), something isn't right with your tyres.

 

[nickboazracing]

[quote="sideways danny":1ufsl1zw]Upgrading the rear pads is a massive waste of money They actually do less that 15% of the braking on a clio. If they did any more than that, the rear would overtake the front.

I've upgraded only the front on mine (Pagid Blues) and the bias is now massively out, the fronts were locking up even in the dry (amazing those Pagids)

I need to upgrade the rears as well to re-balance the brake bias.

In any well-setup track car, the fronts should lock up just before the rears, otherwise you're not maximising your braking performance.[/quote:1ufsl1zw]

You should be able to lock up with even basic standard pads, so the fact you can lock up now shouldn't be an issue.

Fitting different pads will have no effect on brake bias. Brake bias refers to mechanically controlling the front/rear brake pressures relative to each other.

 

[nickboazracing]

The figures I'm using are from lots of calculations done with Jay (of Burpspeed) while he was trying to sort out the issue he had with excessive rear braking after removal of the ABS. He literally couldn't restrict the rear enough to stop the car spinning under braking on track. The temporary solution to get the car usable was to completely disable the rear braking. The car worked better than ever

This doesn't make any sense. :?

How can the car only work if the rear brakes are disconnected? Every other car works with rear brakes. I would suggest there is something seriously wrong here...

To think aloud: The braking system will be cross spilt so are the lines connected correctly after the abs was removed? ie there isn't a line sending front pressure to a rear caliper?

I don't think restricting a line will effect the brake bias as there isn't enough fluid flow.

 

[George K]

Under heavy weight transfer there is very little weight on the rear so 85/15 is believable. Many lightweight racing Minis worked best with front braking only, so that concept is quite reasonable.

The brake bias is not the ultimate determinant of braking force front to rear, as it will be factored by the relative friction of the pads. Thus I would have thought that as the cold coefficient of friction of DS2500 is lower than for standard road pads, and the rears will never get hot (except possibly at Nurburgring), then there will be a greater effective forward bias if they are fitted. Certainly I would only fit them at the rear if a competition pad were to be used at the front.

 

[Rick C196]

Fitting different pads will have no effect on brake bias. Brake bias refers to mechanically controlling the front/rear brake pressures relative to each other.

Are you quite sure about that :lol:

If you increase the coefficient of friction µ between the discs and pads (i.e. by fitting race-spec pads) then you'll get the same deceleration with less brake pedal power.

If you increase µ at the front axle and not the rear then you are 'effectively' moving the brake bias forwards.

You would need to adjust the brake bias to re-balance out the braking pressure front/rear or else fit the same pads on the back

 

[George K]

Rick 196 - my point is that the cold coefficient of friction is generally lower on competition pads, albeit greater at temperature. Pagid certainly publish graphs of Mu against temperature and so may Ferodo.

 

[nickboazracing]

Fitting different pads will have no effect on brake bias. Brake bias refers to mechanically controlling the front/rear brake pressures relative to each other.

Are you quite sure about that :lol:

If you increase the coefficient of friction µ between the discs and pads (i.e. by fitting race-spec pads) then you'll get the same deceleration with less brake pedal power.

If you increase µ at the front axle and not the rear then you are 'effectively' moving the brake bias forwards.

You would need to adjust the brake bias to re-balance out the braking pressure front/rear or else fit the same pads on the back

yes.