Group N ECU

[J07TROPHY]

Hi guys/gals

Looking at getting myself a group N ecu fitted as i have just got a milltek + performance filter want to get the Group N to bring it all together to get a nice little gain will also have the inlet matched too in time.

Just wanted to see if anyone can shed some light and tell me how good this mod is.not expecting massive gains but would hopfully see 10-15bhp? more?

Anyhow if it smooths out the rev rang im happy.

As im so happy with the set up as standard want to spend some money on the engine! :wink:

 

[Cue]

get the other mods done before the ECU - otherwise you won't be hitting it's full potential. I'd personally go with a custom remap instead of the ECU as it's not far off the oem one anyway.

A custom remap with the other mods could see 15 bhp increase alone.

 

[Matt X2C]

with exhaust, filter and group N ECU you will be very lucky to see 10 hp, however the car will be noticeably quicker with the ecu...mainly gives gains in torque and the car will pull harder all through the rev range and have a higher rev limit too. A very good mod and well worth having, i am getting a remap soon.

Although i have been recommended to go for a custom remap rather than a group n.

In regards to the milltek exhaust, how do you rate it?? It was on my shortlist of exhaust options before I brought the yozzasport.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

If & when I do go for a remap it'll be using RSTuning for a custom remap.

No 2 cars are the same & it's worth having things mapped properly for your car imo.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

 

[Cue]

spacemonkey - exactly my plan.

 

[7MAT]

How can it be truly custom if not programmed on a rolling road?

If & when I do go for a remap it'll be using RSTuning for a custom remap.

No 2 cars are the same & it's worth having things mapped properly for your car imo.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

 

[7MAT]

Renault never released a Group 'n' map for the 182 like they did for the 172.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

How can it be truly custom if not programmed on a rolling road?

Iirc they are mapped on a RR :?:

I'm sure PMurray custom maps the cars.

Please correct me if I'm wrong buddy as it'll be handy info for the future. :wink:

 

[7MAT]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that they work from several programs which were originally set-up on a rolling road.

It is these files they use to re-map customer cars from.

 

[Cue]

I spoke with paul last week - he can do custom remaps using a local RR, he has full dyno set-up at his workshop but no RR.

He charges more for the custom work than for the standard stuff.

 

[Steve]

The Group N ECU is a custom re-map. There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding re-maps. I'll try and clear this one up;

The Group N ECU re-map that K-Tec are selling is based on the original motorsport re-map of the 172 based Clio Cup Cars. It has since been modified for the 182 engine (which is almost identical except for breathing). It has elements of the program that can be tweaked to suit the modifications you have/intend to have. Mine has been set-up to for the future installation of a closed IK and exhaust by allowing for more fuelling at high revs (where induction/exhaust mods take full effect). There is no harm in mapping the car for this without having the modifications yet, it just allows for more fuelling if there is enough airflow present. On the rolling road recently, it seemed to give about 6bhp more max power than a standard 182 (175bhp rather than 169bhp corrected for flywheel), and more torque across the middle of the range. In my opinion the re-map is the most cost effective way of improving the engines performance because it essentially optimises the engine map for performance and thus gives a much sharper throttle response, this can make the car a little jumpy when for instance you're exiting a corner in first gear and the bumpy ride makes your foot move slightly on the accelerator, it really is twitchy and alive. I happen to like this characteristic coming form a 205 GTI but Renault it seems think most people don't. Other features are the increased rev-limit to 7750 rpm - I haven't once hit the rev-limiter since the re-map (I used to hit it every day before) and the fact that it is undetectable by Renault diagnosis which means no warranty issues or need to declare it to Insurance company. It's a bargain at £250 and besides I didn't pay for mine anyway. :lol:

 

[Cue]

all down to interpritation - I wouldn't call it a custom remap. It's a remap based on assumtions. Having said that, all of the above can be done using the oem ECU.

What I still don't get where chips come in. I know these aren't ECU's but what exaclty is/does a chip do? is there anypoint in getting a remap and a chip?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I used to hit it every day before

I have never hit the limiter in my 182 & wouldn't unless really giving it some exiting a corner on track.
The power feels like it tails off after 6.5-7K anyways.

 

[George K]

What concerns me is that the group N seems to introduce hairtrigger responses - one of the ways in which the Trophy is so quick in the wet (when hillclimbing) is that I can turn off the TC and gain seconds - all because the soft responses make it so easy to modulate the throttle.

Cue; in the ECU is a microchip which holds the code and hence the map. In days gone by it was not possible to change the code/map, i.e to re-map it, without removing the 'chip'. Usually it was just as easy to supply a replacement chip. Nowadays it is done through an external port (OBD), without removing the chip - hence same chip, but just a remap!

 

[Steve]

all down to interpritation - I wouldn't call it a custom remap. It's a remap based on assumtions. Having said that, all of the above can be done using the oem ECU.

What I still don't get where chips come in. I know these aren't ECU's but what exaclty is/does a chip do? is there anypoint in getting a remap and a chip?

You don't have to call it that, but it's customised to your mods so it is. Chipping is just a mostly obsolete term referring to re-mapping. Piggyback chips are sometimes put onto ECU's to modify the program, now they just re-flash the original ECU or swap it out for a ready flashed unit. This is what K-Tec do. I have my original ECU in my car, it went to Holland for a week then came back.

GeorgeK - I really can't see how having better throttle response could ever be a negative thing in racing, I think you need to try out one that's been done to feel the difference. I don't do hill climbs but couldn't go back to the way it was now, it would feel awful frankly.

Spacemonkey - the F4R peaks at about 6750rpm, very close to the factory set electronic limiter at 7250rpm, when you're using the engine properly it's all too easy to run into the limiter occasionally when there's still some useful revs left, at 7750rpm this doesn't seem to happen as you naturally change up when it feels right. You don't have to abandon a gear at peak power, you will find you're losing some power output, as it will be lower at the same road speed in the gear below. If you want to do that - fine but might as well slot it in fifth and save fuel. :lol:

 

[hoolio]

Whats the difference between the k-tec re-map and the one that 7mat has had done which if i remember gave a slightly increased power output over the k-tec?

 

[Steve]

I have just the re-map and had 175bhp. Matt has inlet polish, acoustic valve removal, closed IK, aftermarket exhaust, custom re-map etc. and had 180bhp on the rolling road. So it's hard to say if the re-map on it's own is any better!

 

[hoolio]

I have just the re-map and had 175bhp. Matt has inlet polish, acoustic valve removal, closed IK, aftermarket exhaust, custom re-map etc. and had 180bhp on the rolling road. So it's hard to say if the re-map on it's own is any better!

Ok. I knew he had a stack of mods but thought he had produced a bigger increase, must stop destroying brain cells.

 

[7MAT]

On the Surrey Rolling Road I got 151bhp ATW and on Sanspeeds Rollers I got 161bhp ATW.

Performance mods are de-cat, ITG panel filter, backbox, acoustic valve removed, matched inlets and custom Superchips remap.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Spacemonkey - the F4R peaks at about 6750rpm, very close to the factory set electronic limiter at 7250rpm, when you're using the engine properly it's all too easy to run into the limiter occasionally when there's still some useful revs left, at 7750rpm this doesn't seem to happen as you naturally change up when it feels right. You don't have to abandon a gear at peak power, you will find you're losing some power output, as it will be lower at the same road speed in the gear below. If you want to do that - fine but might as well slot it in fifth and save fuel. :lol:

If the engine is producing peak power @ 6750rpm then surely revving it much beyond that is revving it for revving sake? If you change before 7K you still drop back into the meat of the power delivery from 5K+.

I can understand perhaps touching the limiter as I said mid or exiting a corner, but I've never clipped the limiter in mine. You can hear when you are close & change or back off accordingly.

Not having a go, it's interesting to read someone else's view & compare it to your own findings & experiences.