ECU tuning - what are all the options?

[OliS]

The recent posts about the types of chips/ecu that you can get for the Trophy has got me very interested in the subject. Trying to work out what is the best of the options available.

The chips/ecu's I know about so far are as follows:

Replacement ECU with R'sport map - The type that Nik has just fitted from fastchip, also available from BB Tuning.

Superchip - Am I right in saying that this is a piggyback chip that is added to the existing ecu, that has different fuel and ignition settings? Does anyone know if this is the same type of chip as the Starchip that BBR/Morego offer? I notice that these guys offer a custom map for one of these chips, but I've always heard that piggyback chips are to be avoided, is this really the case?

Mappable ecu - Can't get onto his website right now, but I think Yozza offers an Omex mappable ecu, which I know is an expensive option, but surely it is the only way to ensure that if you have carried out mods to your car, you are getting the most from these from the mods and that you are not damaging your engine? What's the deal with the SMT6 that GDI use, is it basically a mappable version of one the piggyback units, which retains the other functions of the std ecu?

I am looking to get a high flow induction kit, modified inlet manifold and a full exhaust incl sports cat, and I would like to ensure that the engine is running as sweet as can be with these mods.

I'm thinking that the R'sport ecu's (even the map for ik's and sports exhaust) are never going to be perfectly mapped for these mods on each individual engine, and that maybe a custom map on a piggyback chip could be the best option without having to go the whole hog and spend £500 plus on a mappable ecu, but I don't know if these piggyback style of ecu's can be trusted. :?

Any comments or advice that anyone has got would be greatly appreciated!

 

[George K]

OliS - We seem to be corresponding regularly! The superchip is a reprogrammed version of the standard chip - as I said in the post on 'superchips' you need to be sure that it is mapped accurately for your particluar moes to get the best out of it/the engine. I am currently trying to find out who does it best, there is a lot of correspondence on Cliosport at present, including some claims which seem rather optimistic. Seeing that you are interested in the modified inlet manifold, either Ben R of Angelworks or Nick Hill of Hillpower can do this - Nick apparently can also do proper custom re-mapping.

My latest information is that the piggyback solution (SMT6 or Unichip) is very limited in what parameters it can modify and so is probably only a halfway house option.

Stand alone ECU's such as Omex, Emerald, DAT or MBE can give the ultimate results, but as they rely on throttle position sensors are quite difficult to set-up, are certainly difficult to get emissions right and can make cold starting a pain for every day use. They are the only option with throttle bodies, where cold start/idle seems to be much easier to manage, and probably are best saved for such specialist applications.

These comments are based on my general experience and are far from definitive, but if you would like to pool research, I would be happy to talk through the pros & cons. Despite my Devon address, I work near Thtacham if you would like to get in touch just pm.

 

[OliS]

Hey George, I was hoping you would have some input on this subject! :wink:

My interest in the modified inlet manifold is due to your recent post in the modifications topic, it would seem silly not to do it when it seems like it could be a great way of seeing good gains for relatively little outlay.

Back to the subject of ecu's, with the superchip style option, is the std ecu just reprogrammed, or is a replacement chip (ie a physical part) actually applied to the std ecu? How do Ben and Nick do the reprogramming, again is this a remap of the std ecu? Any ideas of the costs involved for the custom remaps?

Thanks!

 

[Slugger]

Superchip reprogram the existing ecu. They plug a laptop in to a connector which is under the ashtray. I had this done on my old 172 cup. A piggyback ecu such as smt or unichip isn't any more limited in what it can do than reprogramming the standard ecu as superchip etc will only change the fueling and maye ignition timing. A piggyback style cetainly does this.

 

[Fred]

we can do anything to the OE ECU, and have some brilliant results

 

[OliS]

Thanks for the comments Slugger, I guess a custom re-map of the std ecu is emerging as the best option.

Fred - who do you work for/with, is it Yozza?

 

[Fred]

i co own Yozzasport

(Wayne, we can do the V6 too )

 

[OliS]

Cool, I'll be in contact when I need to

Do you/Can you do the mods to the inlet manifold as well? Are you guys linked to GDI/AWT in anyway?

 

[Nik]

:shock:

 

[OliS]

:shock:

Why the shocked face, because you have just fitted your fastchip ecu?

 

[George K]

My comments about the limitations of piggy-backs may be wrong, but a good source recently suggested that they can notnecessarily modify the closed loop part of the operations, which in the case of the Clio is below 4,000. Also I am not clear as to whether a piggy-back only compensates at full throttle, or reconfigures the whole map. Since most of the better engine mods fill out the torque curve, it is worth while getting the full benefit.

Years ago I had a car fitted with an MBE system, where it had been fully mapped on the dyno all the way up from idle at a series of different throttle positions - the results were stunning ( I am glad to say that it was not at my expense), but even then it suffered from cold start and emissions problems.

This is not to advocate the alternative ECU, but just to say that a proper re-map of all the parameters to match your engine and its modifications is really worthwhile

 

[Slugger]

i co own Yozzasport

(Wayne, we can do the V6 too )

We may need to talk in the future

 

[OliS]

It would be good to find out the quality of these custom re-maps for the std ecu, if they can reconfigure the whole map, or if there are limitations to their performance. If they are limited in what they can do then maybe a fully mappaple ecu is the way to go for true accuracy and performance, even if it would be a very expensive choice.

 

[Fred]

Oil, we have NOTHING to do with GDI, thats all i can say

yes we can get the inlets matched no problem (see below)

we have a mk1 172 in at the moment having our 200bhp conversion using our remap service (inlet matching is part of the conversion)

the std ECU is surprisingly good in terms of wht it can do (turbos, cams etc etc)

plus with the remap Renault can't detect it, a piggyback they will see

 

[George K]

Fred, to get 200 bhp are you able to say what else you do please and what effect does the work have on the torque curve?

 

[TheJesus]

has anyone considered Chip Wizards? He's mapped the Siemans ECU for the Williams, it took a while for him to crack the code and now he can do them at will and it has more flexability than a piggy back. big hp's car made 151bhp at the wheels with basic breathing mods... which is about 180bhp.

worth speaking to him, he WAS the main man that used to do all the Jabba sport cars iirc and is a pioneer in mapping... I've done a search on google for him and the Porsche turbo owners are constantly raving on about him. mines going there once some more bits n bobs are on.

oh, it's £350-£400 for a map, WC discount at £350, sure you guys could get the same?

here's his rather crap website, but its a way to get in touch.

http://www.chipwizards.co.uk/

 

[Fred]

Fred, to get 200 bhp are you able to say what else you do please and what effect does the work have on the torque curve?

yeah i can tell you all the details no problem (i'm also happy to post the power graphs, when my scanner is working! LOL)

our kit is :

Schrick camshafts
inlet matching
YS remap
new cambelt + tensioner (optional, customers choice)

turn around is usually 1 week

cars normally have the obligatory air filter + exhaust + sport/decat already


i won't comment further as i don't want to force stuff down peoples throat, but a few cars with our conversion will be "out to play" soon enough, i'm sure the owners can comment on the conversion

(nev's old cup has our cams and made 210bhp *apparently, but i don't like to quote RR power figures, i prefer to quote % gains, but unfortunatley i don't have the figures but will do shortly)

sorry for the ramble!!! LOL

regards FRED

 

[George K]

Fred, thanks very much for the info. Do Schrick publish the duration and lift figures? Also out of interest do you remap the cam control system, which I assume simply adjusts the overlap?

 

[Fred]

ah ha, now you're getting cheeky!!! i can't reveal all my secrets now can i

 

[George K]

Fred, accepting your comments in good grace, what if I go onto the Schrick site - I have certainly seen their figures published somewhere; now if they are a special grind for you, then of course game and set to you!