Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
703
Reaction score
4
Location
Failsport HQ.
OK, so last night i got the Geo done by a mates garage. Yes, they are a bodyshop, but when you are the authorised repairer for Lotus, Aston, Ferrari, Lamborghini & Pagani, you probably know how to set up a clio lol ...

So, effectively, since we fitted the front suspension, the Toe has been out a little, ok, so its been out a lot, brilliant around right hand bends, but not so helpful when the car is trying to turn the M3 into a continuous corner. I've also had to hold the steering wheel at 45 degrees in order to go in a straight line lol. Crabbing FTL :oops:

Effectively, having put it on the rig, the front left toe was at 1.8 (degrees i guess), so the wheels kinda looked like this:

/ l

No wonder it drove funny :lol:

Once that was sorted, we checked the rest of the settings out. Now, when we fitted the Eibach camber bolts, i was under the impression that had a max. camber setting of -1.8 degrees, so we just put them to full negative, as you do.

Now im not sure if the Trophy is setup slightly differently to the normal 1*2, but the front camber was -2.8 degrees lol. As such, i thought id leave it, seems to handle ok. Rear camber (despite no shims) is at -1.8 degrees, again, slightly more than i imagined it would be, but if it aiint broke, dont fix it. So we didnt.

Havent driven it that much since, ie just down the M3 with a few roundabouts thrown in via a quick detour, but opionion is as follows:

Ridiculous levels of grip/turn in, etc.
Rather pointy in terms of direction changes.
The car is more than happy to steer on the throttle as well as the wheel.


Obviously Donington will give a proper feel for the car on the 13th, but bugger me, the car is epic now.

Proper twitchy little f**ker though
unsure.gif
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
71
Reaction score
0
That's good news, a good alignment totally changes a car indeed.

Can you scan and post the printout?
So front camber -2.8 and rear -1.8? That's good to be achieved on standard top mounts.
What castor and toe in/out did you use?
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
703
Reaction score
4
Location
Failsport HQ.
fpan said:
That's good news, a good alignment totally changes a car indeed.

Can you scan and post the printout?
So front camber -2.8 and rear -1.8? That's good to be achieved on standard top mounts.
What castor and toe in/out did you use?

No printout im afraid, they only use the machine to setup up the Lotus' they've stuck back together, its not a service they offer to paying customers so to speak.

Settings are:

Front Camber: -2.8 on both sides
Rear Camber: -1.8 on both sides
Front Toe: 0.0 on both sides

Not sure on Castor tbh. But yeah, i was quite surprised at the camber it was running - standard top mounts, with Eibach Sportlines & a Whiteline ARB, dampers are still on their fixed settings.

:D
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
71
Reaction score
0
Are the Eibach sportlines the standard front springs?

Sorry to go off topic but what are the rear dampers on Trophies and what is recommended to do with them when you service the fronts?

I was reading somewhere about some Fischer Koni modifications for the rear dampers.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
703
Reaction score
4
Location
Failsport HQ.
The standard front springs are made by Eibach, but to Renault specs.

Sportlines are very similar poundage iirc, but offer a slightly lower ride height, maybe -15mm or so, which i prefer. Also seems to have given a slightly more compliant ride without any loss of cornering ability which is always nice.

The rear dampers are exactly the same as the normal cup-packed 182 (so probbaly the same as all the other 1*2's), but Renault very kindy put a diferent sticker/part number on them & add the appropriate level of 'Trophy Tax' so they are prohibitively expensive to replace, i have an invoice for £380 for fitment of two new rear dampers lol!!

Which is where Mark Fish comes in, he offers either Koni Sports, or revalved (harder) koni Sports that are fully adjustable for damping on the car. These cost roughly £250-£400 for the pair so are a nice upgrade over the standard, non-adjustable stuff, for similar money. He does some springs as well which are apparently pretty good (& well matched to the uprated dampers) for £220.

I havent bought the Koni's yet as firstly my rears are only 12 months old, but secondly i havent 'unpinned' the front dampers yet, so they are still fixed on the OE Renault damping rates.

Hope that helps :)
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
743
Reaction score
2
Location
Essex
I picked my car up from Mark Fish last night after having the front alignment and camber adjusted. He said ususally they come from the factory with anything to 0.25 difference between the 2 sides. He said mine were on -0.25 and -0.75 lol! But i had taken the suspension off to put some sportlines on so that probably explains that. Since that it has never felt very good.

However now have -1.75 either side on the front and instantly feels better. Havent been for a proper run yet but just feels so much more smoother mid corner. He managed to get the adjusment from the dampers themselves as he said he doesnt like the eibach bolts and prefers doing it this way? Guess he cut away a little bit on the mounting point?

Interestingly, he commented that my front suspension seemed to be a little high? Now i have always thought this too.

Dave what do you think of your sportlines? Do you think the front is higher?
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
703
Reaction score
4
Location
Failsport HQ.
Certainly dont think their higher, not exactly lower though lol!!! I reckon its about 5-10mm lower all round, has settled a little since these pictures as well.

Before:
ca51838c.jpg


After:
DSC04012.jpg

Hate to think how much Fishy charged though lol ...

Bet it was more than the £20 the Eibachs cost me :wink:
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
813
Location
OXFORD
Trophy No.
307
Sam that is exactly what "Fishy" wanted to do to my dampers to increase the camber until I oresaided him the twelve mil bolts I had would give a perfect negative two. Patent GeorgeK.
Have to agree with the above extra camber transforms the car.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
967
Reaction score
1
Location
SW France
+1

Mine has neg 2 (via eibach bolts) with 10 mins toe out and STM's; totally sublime when compared to stock :)
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
52
Reaction score
0
Location
Plymouth
Hi guys, I'm gonna get my dampers re-furbed soon by BG and then get the geo and ball joints done by Ktec.
I was planning on keeping everything to OE spec i.e not underpinning dampers and leaving springs and rear dampers alone. Ben @ BG asked me if I wanted a camber kit fitted, but as I currently only use my T on the road I didnt think I would benefit although Tbh I don't really know exactly wot it is all about.

Seeing all you talking about the camber / toe etc and wot a difference it makes over the OE setup I'm starting to think should I be considering making some upgrades. Could you explain abit about wot is best, ta
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
813
Location
OXFORD
Trophy No.
307
eljeffo64 said:
+1

Mine has neg 2 (via eibach bolts) with 10 mins toe out and STM's; totally sublime when compared to stock :)

Pretty much identical setup to mine. Dave why did you go parallel and not a little toe out?
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
813
Location
OXFORD
Trophy No.
307
Adam even if you keep it OE its really worth while getting it all checked same both sides etc and also steering wheel centered exactly though there is plenty of further info if you search "camber"
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
52
Reaction score
0
Location
Plymouth
hoolio said:
Adam even if you keep it OE its really worth while getting it all checked same both sides etc and also steering wheel centered exactly though there is plenty of further info if you search "camber"



Okay thanks I will ave a good look at previous posts :D
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
703
Reaction score
4
Location
Failsport HQ.
hoolio said:
Pretty much identical setup to mine. Dave why did you go parallel and not a little toe out?

Purely as my other mates cars (all 172 cups) run parallel really. Didnt give it much more thought.

In addition, by the time i got round to changing my mind (after reading about diff toe settgins on here) & asking the chap if he could do 0.1 he had pretty much packed everything away ...

Seemed harsh to ask him to redo it, especially as it cost me nowt 8)
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
813
Location
OXFORD
Trophy No.
307
Adam Trophy 37 said:
hoolio said:
Adam even if you keep it OE its really worth while getting it all checked same both sides etc and also steering wheel centered exactly though there is plenty of further info if you search "camber"



Okay thanks I will ave a good look at previous posts :D
.

Sorry not a fan of the "do a search" school of advice but the type of setup some have here is not for everyone, extra tyre wear blah blah so probably best you read up and decide yourself.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
967
Reaction score
1
Location
SW France
H, not noticed any abnormal or excessive tyre wear with my set up; granted, I don't do big miles but I do keep a keen eye on it all and after circa 5k all looks fine, tyre wise...
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
813
Location
OXFORD
Trophy No.
307
Interesting, it was never a concern for me as I also do negligible miles but the idea always made sense.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
743
Reaction score
2
Location
Essex
hoolio said:
Sam that is exactly what "Fishy" wanted to do to my dampers to increase the camber until I oresaided him the twelve mil bolts I had would give a perfect negative two. Patent GeorgeK.
Have to agree with the above extra camber transforms the car.

Sorry H dont quite understand that? you used 12mm bolts instead and that acheived it?

Adam it really is worth doing, On the way to the gym last night went round my usual roundabouts and i honestly cannot belive the difference it has made!?! before mine must have been really bad lol!

Dave wasnt the cheapest in the world, £120+VAT :shock: , but that included an alignment as well, other places i went were similar and I know he is good :wink:

For reference mine is set up with 10mins toe out as well (i think...)
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
691
Reaction score
3
Location
Manchester
^ he means 12mm cap head bolts that are 12.9 rated and you will also need spiralok nuts so that you can tighten them up to the same as standard.
You fit them instead of camber bolts and give around -2 deg of negative camber.
 
Top