Brakes again
lol lazy bugger, there doesn't seem a definative answer to this, But a good guide is .... http://www.yozzasport.co.uk/store/products.php?cat=10
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beaver said:
I'm too lazy to give you an answer.
You're making a mockery of everyone who spends hours each month providing informative posts.
:roll: :evil:
O.
edit: happy for my fellow Trophy owners to tell me that I am out of line if they feel so...
edit#2: welcome...
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- #5
oliie said:beaver said:
I'm too lazy to give you an answer.
You're making a mockery of everyone who spends hours each month providing informative posts.
:roll: :evil:
O.
edit: happy for my fellow Trophy owners to tell me that I am out of line if they feel so...
edit#2: welcome...
Jesus, that's 2 frankly impolite replies received since I've joined!
I did acknowledge that I could have trawled thru the archives, but not only am I too lazy but also just a bit too busy!
Apologies to all those that have posted and feel mocked.... :roll:
Nik
ClioTrophy Admin
Hi! Welcome to the forum
Brakes are the one thing that quite a few people decide to upgrade on the RS Clio's especially if they are going on track a few times a year.
I'd advise upgrading to braided hoses for a start, that will help improve pedal feel. For pads I'd say something like the Ferodo DS2500's would be a good compromise pad. They are a big improvement over the standard pads on track, yet not too much of a pain to live with day to day from a dust, noise and disc wear perspective.
If you want a bit more agressive then look at Pagid Blue (RS4-2) or for the ulitmate stopping power Performance Friction '97 pads, but i'd only recommend the latter if you do some serious hard work on the track and like cleaning
I'd say DS2500's, combined with the cheap OEM replacement Brembo High Carbon discs and some braided lines are the best all round choice for most people.
Either way, everything you need is at the link posted above
Cheers,
Nik
Brakes are the one thing that quite a few people decide to upgrade on the RS Clio's especially if they are going on track a few times a year.
I'd advise upgrading to braided hoses for a start, that will help improve pedal feel. For pads I'd say something like the Ferodo DS2500's would be a good compromise pad. They are a big improvement over the standard pads on track, yet not too much of a pain to live with day to day from a dust, noise and disc wear perspective.
If you want a bit more agressive then look at Pagid Blue (RS4-2) or for the ulitmate stopping power Performance Friction '97 pads, but i'd only recommend the latter if you do some serious hard work on the track and like cleaning
I'd say DS2500's, combined with the cheap OEM replacement Brembo High Carbon discs and some braided lines are the best all round choice for most people.
Either way, everything you need is at the link posted above
Cheers,
Nik
didn't realise you could buy pads that weren't road legal to be fair.
Nik said:
There, wasn't that easier than slating the bloke, guys?
Actually I can't talk, it was me that snapped at him for not registering. Sorry Beaver, we're a nice bunch really, just aversive of people who use caps lock too much or don't type 'brakes' into the search bar rather than starting a new post. :wink:
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Cue said:
If they are not E-marked then they are not road legal. For instance PF97s take longer to get up to the equivalent braking performance of the stock Clio pads due in part to the material. Therefore they are not E-marked.
You can buy the pads but technically they are for off-road use only. It always pays to know where you stand
Some blurb from the Mintex site:
ECE REGULATION NO.90
R90 Specifies Performance Standards for Replacement Brake Linings.
What are marked brake pads?
There is now a European Standard for Aftermarket Brake Pads which is known as ECE Regulation 90.
Brake Pads that conform to the standard are issued with an number.
R90 is Available for Voluntary Adoption by any National State.
What is the mark standard?
The standard states that the Aftermarket friction material should be within ±15% of the OE performance when measured under specific conditons. Also the production facility must have systems and tests to ensure the same level of quality consistently.
In reality ±15% is a wide tolerance band and the standard should be seen as the minimum acceptable level. As an OE manufacturer TMD Friction will always aim to be very close to the OE level on all Mintex Brake Pads sold in the Aftermarket.
Is it compulsory to have an mark?
ECE Regulation 90 is compulsory for all brake pads and shoes fitted to vehicles registered after September 1999.
Will the mark apply to all part numbers?
Only those vehicles in current production will need the mark. For example the Ford Mondeo will need an certificate but not the Ford Sierra.
How can I identify brake pads that have been approved to the new standard?
The brake pad box will show the specific approval number and material quality. The number is also branded on all four of the brake pads in the box.
SCOPE
Introduced on the 1st November 1992, the Regulation initially applied to replacement "brake lining assemblies"* for cars, buses, goods vehicles and trailers upto 3.5 tonnes maximum mass.
(*The term applies to both disc brake and drum brake lining assemblies).
Amendments introduced on the 5th March 1997 broaden the scope to include replacement brake lining assemblies for all road vehicles and trailers approved in accordance with Regulation 13 (see background below) and Regulation 78 (two and three-wheeled vehicles), - and in addition - drum brake linings designed to be riveted for buses over 5 tonnes, and goods vehicles and trailers over 3.5 tonnes.
BACKGROUND
The Economic Commission for Europe (ECE) is a United Nations organisation established in Geneva in 1958. Its purpose is to harmonise the various European national regulations, which might act as a barrier to trade within Europe, (as distinct from the EC).
ECE Regulation 13, first published in 1969, forms the basis of approval procedures for brake performance on NEW vehicles in Europe and many parts of the world outside the USA (71/320/EEC is the equivalent Directive in the EC).
Prior to R90, apart from national MOT test requirements, Germany was the only country with an approval scheme relating to the performance of replacement brake linings: KBA Approval (or ABE).
CURRENT STATUS
Regulation 90 Approvals are being granted by many European Government Authorities, although only the following countries designate R90 in a legal capacity:
Germany will accept R90 as an alternative to national requirements, Poland and the Czech Republic have introduced National Legislation, as follows:
R90 is accepted as an alternative to national requirements for vehicles in production since the end of 1992; KBA Approval is required for vehicles which went out of production before this.
Regulation 90 will become effective within EC countries with the implementation of Directive 98/12/EC (current amending Directive to 71/320/EEC).
Given the situation that R90 will be accepted within the EC, (whereas EC Directives are not accepted outside the EC), R90 will remain the preferred approval procedure.
The timetable for implementation is as follows:
Cars, vans and buses up to 3.5 Tonnes maximum mass
- 31st March 2001.
Vehicles over 3.5 Tonnes maximum mass
- No date specified.
Vehicles affected will be those which have been approved to 98/12/EC. For practical purposes, within the UK, the DETR are proposing:
"vehicles registered from 1st September 1999".
The position of other EC countries is not known.
Most European Friction Manufacturers are already proving their products to the R90 Regulation.
TMD Friction have been working with the UK and German approval authorities since August 1994. The main part of the pad range is already covered.
REGULATION 90 REQUIREMENTS
1.The brake performance of replacement pads and linings must meet the requirements of ECE 13, the standard for new vehicles.
The test methods for R90 purposes are as follows:
Cars, buses and goods vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes:
Vehicle test.
Trailers up to 3.5 tonnes:
Vehicle test, inertia dynamometer test or rolling road test.
Buses up to 5 tonnes:
Vehicle test.
Buses over 5 tonnes and goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes:
Vehicle test, or inertia dynamometer test.
Trailers over 3.5 tonnes:
Vehicle test, inertia dynamometer test or rolling road test.
additionally:
1. The brake performance on an axle must be within + or -15% of the O.E.
-5% to +15% for trailers over 3.5 tonnes.
2. Speed sensitivity must be less than 15%.
25% for buses over 5 tonnes & goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes.
3. Brake lining assemblies must meet specific shear test requirements, (not lined shoes for heavy vehicles).
4. Brake lining assemblies and drum brake linings designed to be riveted must meet specific compressibility requirements;
5. Performance on a friction behaviour machine test, e.g. Krauss, must be registered. The test for heavy vehicle friction materials is a rectangular sample test on a standard specified disc brake.
6. Pads and shoes must display the makers" name and material type and be sealed in a branded package with full fitting instructions.
7. The maker must have satisfactory quality control procedures, (ISO9000 or equivalent may be accepted in the future).
8. "Conformity of production" must be demonstrated in quality control records of the following:
shear tests (not lined shoes for heavy vehicles),
compressibility tests,
friction behaviour tests, (e.g. Krauss).
The results from the Krauss test must comply with limits based on the registered values.
Heavy vehicle disc brake pads, lined shoes and linings must also be regularly tested for hardness.
The control records and procedures will be subject to inspection by the authorities, normally once per year
Is the mark standard the same as the German National Standard (KBA)?
No, the mark standard is higher than the KBA standard because it incorporates additonal "speed sensitivity tests" not needed for KBA. It is possible a pad could pass KBA and fail the test.
Nik have you tryed the Pagid Blue yet and if so what are they likeNik said:Hi! Welcome to the forum
Brakes are the one thing that quite a few people decide to upgrade on the RS Clio's especially if they are going on track a few times a year.
I'd advise upgrading to braided hoses for a start, that will help improve pedal feel. For pads I'd say something like the Ferodo DS2500's would be a good compromise pad. They are a big improvement over the standard pads on track, yet not too much of a pain to live with day to day from a dust, noise and disc wear perspective.
If you want a bit more agressive then look at Pagid Blue (RS4-2) or for the ulitmate stopping power Performance Friction '97 pads, but i'd only recommend the latter if you do some serious hard work on the track and like cleaning
I'd say DS2500's, combined with the cheap OEM replacement Brembo High Carbon discs and some braided lines are the best all round choice for most people.
Either way, everything you need is at the link posted above
Cheers,
Nik
nik how do you find the friction 97 as a day to day pad if you forget about the damage to your wheels and pant work as i will have gone threw a set of ferodo ds2500 in november they have only done one track day and about 500 miles and after the next track day in November they will be on the metal ?Nik said: