Help me out here guys - GeorgeK, Donkey, anyone?

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Steve

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There are some real doughnuts (so far up their own arses) on that site, a lot of nice people but some real numpties too. How dare anyone claim there is a better car than ours? The fecking cheek! That's why I like this site, we don't have this stupid debate! Since KS has fucked off anyhow. :lol:
 
FunkyMunky

FunkyMunky

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Invader Zim 26 was previously James 182 .... really not worth trying to argue with him as he'll still keep coming back with more answers.... the thread is full of keyboard warriors.... i keep my surfing on there to the bare minimum now
 
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Steve

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He's probably a nice person, that's the trouble with tinternet, you end up fighting with people who, if you bumped into them in the pub, you'd probably get on really well with, you'd be chuffed that they were into cars for a start. On the net, you can prefer one type of IK over another or a modified FF 182 that wants to be a Trophy over a Trophy and you end up insulting each other!

Back to topic though, I just find it a bit silly when people comment on the Trophy lifting a rear wheel as a negative handling characteristic! They think that if a car looks planted it means it's generating 33% more grip than if it's on 3 wheels. Personally I'd rather have that ineffectual inside rear tyre lifted clear of the tarmac so it doesn't drag and create understeer, exactly as Renaultsport intended. They're claiming it's not intentional but a sign of poor set-up and too much dive under braking.
 
hoolio

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Yeah contributed a small piece early in that thread and then lost the will to live. :)
 
MCoupe

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Steve said:
Back to topic though, I just find it a bit silly when people comment on the Trophy lifting a rear wheel as a negative handling characteristic! They think that if a car looks planted it means it's generating 33% more grip than if it's on 3 wheels. Personally I'd rather have that ineffectual inside rear tyre lifted clear of the tarmac so it doesn't drag and create understeer, exactly as Renaultsport intended. They're claiming it's not intentional but a sign of poor set-up and too much dive under braking.
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these people will not listen Steve, they do not want to admit that their is serious competition for their chosen motor, lets be honest the Trophy punches massively above its weight!

I would love a mini cooper S grand prix but at twice the price of a Trophy :shock: Its not twice as good, Im not even sure it is any better?
 
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George K

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It is typical of a FWD car with a low percentage of its wieght on the rear wheels and a handling biased set-up, in that the reason that it lifts a rear wheel is that it has very little droop travel on the rear dampers. For racing I would reduce this to even less, but then the ride would become awful.

For RWD cars it can be done at the front, and I have seen cars with thick wire droop restrictors in lieu of specaia dampers - a friend used to have one of the quickest circuit racing Morris Minors in the country and he reckoned that this was the single most effective suspension mod - it was almost undrivable away from a billiard smooth circuit, but so what.

The problem with most people who knock such characteristics is that they have no idea of what a real racing set up is like or the compromises needed to make a saloon, which was never meant to be a proper racing car handle even remotely well. Why do the Clio Cup cars run front springs more than 6 times times a stiff as the road car, or other racing saloons run springs of up to 1,600 lbs/inch.

Steve is quite right that with so little load on the rear the inside wheel is contributing nothing to the equation, which is why you do not even notice when it comes off the ground.

Hope that helps and does not sound too arrogant, but that's the way it is.
 
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fazedesign

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George K said:
It is typical of a FWD car with a low percentage of its wieght on the rear wheels and a handling biased set-up, in that the reason that it lifts a rear wheel is that it has very little droop travel on the rear dampers. For racing I would reduce this to even less, but then the ride would become awful.

For RWD cars it can be done at the front, and I have seen cars with thick wire droop restrictors in lieu of specaia dampers - a friend used to have one of the quickest circuit racing Morris Minors in the country and he reckoned that this was the single most effective suspension mod - it was almost undrivable away from a billiard smooth circuit, but so what.

The problem with most people who knock such characteristics is that they have no idea of what a real racing set up is like or the compromises needed to make a saloon, which was never meant to be a proper racing car handle even remotely well. Why do the Clio Cup cars run front springs more than 6 times times a stiff as the road car, or other racing saloons run springs of up to 1,600 lbs/inch.

Steve is quite right that with so little load on the rear the inside wheel is contributing nothing to the equation, which is why you do not even notice when it comes off the ground.

Hope that helps and does not sound too arrogant, but that's the way it is.
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Spot on as ever George. Especially the bit about RWD cars doing the opposite - not something that many people realise!
 
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Steve

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Thanks George, I knew you'd come through for me. Exactly what I said on the Renaultsport thread about DELIBERATELY limiting the droop, but they wouldn't have it, saying it's not deliberate and that with 'better' Leda coilovers his 182 is much faster (twice as fast in a 45 mph corner) than a Trophy because it corners flat and has loads more grip because it doesn't lift a rear wheel. Oh, and it's a better driver's car on the road too apparently.
 
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