Cat-back & panel filter improvements?

[dagored]

Hi everyone -

I've been knocking around the idea of getting a Trophy for a while now, and I'm going to be buying one very soon now.

Quick question: is it best to get a bog-stock example (what I've always done in the past) or does the Trophy respond well to a cat-back pipe and a panel filter? Without an ECU upgrade I can't see how these'll make it anything but a bit louder and boomier - plus obviously they infer that the Trophy's been thrashed!

To buy with or without, that is my question.

Cheers!

 

[Tonyment]

I pesonally wouldnt buy a moded car as that usually means the car has had a harder life! This is just my opinion! might not be the case in all times!! i was wondering about this also as im not too sure if the car would need mapping if i change the exhaust and filter!!

 

[BenG]

With the addition of an IK the air/fuel ratio will be altered so re-mapping is recommended. + remapping after the addition of an IK will help get the most performance gains from it.
A performance or aftermarket exhaust wont affect the air/fuel ratio, it will just de-restrict the gas flow after its left the cylinders, so it wont affect the map.

The way to do it is, put every performance modification on which you plan to do, then get a re-map as it will take into account all the modifications and everything should run smoothly. You wont see much gains from an IK and an exhaust alone tho.

I personally would expect every 182 trophy to have been thrashed at some point in its life, standard or not.
As long as its been serviced at regular intervals and owned by an enthusiast I cant see a problem, most have tbh.
+ a panel filter and cat back exhaust are 2 of the most common modifications people do to their Trophys.

 

[dagored]

So who are the acknowledged people in the South-East to take Trophies to for re-mapping/engine work? Is there an ECU chip that you guys know about that fills in noise/emissions holes in the powercurve, or improves throttle response? Thanks!

 

[George K]

So far no one on this forum (or Cliosport iirc from my infrequent visits) has actually done a back to back test on intake systems. The standard one looks quite good and when both inlet pipes to the airbox are working has adequate cross sectional area - what is unknown is when the accoustic valve closes - which could be restrictive, particularly as the secondary air intake is not very well sited. As the Trophy has a MAF system - which monitors air flow mass (and so compensates for temperature) - it is highly unlikely that just changing the induction system would require a re-map.

What I did find was that a good custom re-map did get the best of the mods that I carried out, but that would probably also apply without any mods.

Similarly there is little proven information on the gains of alternative exhaust systems - don't forget that the Trophy apparently has a 200 cell Cat as standard.

 

[BenG]

So far my engine has had no intake modifications. It was put on a rolling road at RS Tuning late on last year, I have the fuel/air ratio on the graph.

The only intake/performance modifications I intend to fit are the Maxogen IK and RS192 exhaust.
I will be taking my car back to RS Tuning after this for a custom map. I will ask for a print out for before and after runs and compare the before run graph to the graph I got last year. This should show me whether the addition of an IK will affect the air/fuel ratio.

George I agree with what your saying, I dont think a re map after the addition of an IK is necessary, I dont think it will affect the ratio too much, but I do think it would be best to get a re map afterwards.

Me, 'Cue' and 'Shiftspark' went to RS Tuning last year for a power run. Mine and 'shiftspark''s cars were both standard. As far as im aware, induction modifications on 'Cue''s car are Matched inlets and Maxogen IK. Paul said his car was running rich and would need a remap to sort it out. My best guess is the addition of the IK has caused this ?

 

[George K]

BenG - I can't argue with facts. I seem to remember that there is a pressure/temperature sensor in the standard elbow between the air box and throttle body, if so does the Maxogen retain this? I had a long chat to the owner of ITG at the Autosport show - they had a stand in the engineering section near ours - certainly the concept is nice and optimises the airflow around the filter and does it best to avoid any negative losses in the air intake - but I am still surprised that the MAF does not pull the a/f ratio back into range. As an aside several DC5 tuners do not rate them, but then that may just be vested interest!!, even though I may end up with one as the most sensible option!!

 

[Luke335]

I think it's worth taking a look at either and judging for yourself by the condition of the car. Many people will change the exhaust because the original has rusted / sounds pathetic / looks like a pair of pea shooters! I think to replace an original exhaust is also really expensive compared to many aftermarket options.

I think it's worth taking into account the mileage, owner, servicing, condition of the suspension, oil, tyres etc.

I would also say that these modifications don't make a huge difference to ultimate performance, so don't expect too much from them.

 

[Cue]

i've known mines being running rich for a bit - tail pipes of the zorst are a big give away but it's not really making much difference to performance in terms of detriment - it can obviously be improved.

Biggest change since fitting the Maxogen has been a slight drop in mpg - ave has dropped to around 32 mpg from 34 mpg, this also is a major indicator into over fuelling.

Back on topic: I feel a lot can be said from the quality of components used when upgrading, service intervals and the register info on here - generally the majority on here have looked after their car, the ones that haven't been registered are a bit of an unknown.

 

[BenG]

Appologies for being off topic !

George - So the MAF is the device which regulates the a/f ratio ? So if the air mass is increased the monitoring device picks upon this sends it back to the ECU and the ECU will increase the fuel to keep the ratio correct?

Is there limits on this system, ie, What if the air mass is too high for the MAF or ECU to compensate for. Maybe that would explain why the addition of an IK will affect the a/f ratio in that way, As the IK will increase the air mass??

 

[dagored]

I'm not an expert on cars - my real knowledge is in high-performance motorcycle engines - but on one of those you'd NEVER meddle significantly with the intake system without re-mapping the ECU; you'd end up with flatspots all over the place.

I'm looking at a couple of cars next week, I'm assuming they're standard. Will take it from there. Thanks for your comments!

 

[George K]

BenG - You understanding is correct. Mixture correction also comes from the lambda sensor in the exhaust, as the mixture also affects the exhaust gas analysis (both re emssions and power/economy). You will probably have read about broad band sensors being used, particularly on turbo cars, to allow richer mixtures, should not be an issue on n/a. I don't know the answer to your point. about limits on the system, it would be logical to assume that there will come a point where it can't cope, however all that I would say is that no IK even claims more than about 5% gain, so one can safely assume that it will cope up to 95% max demand, say 6,850 rpm, and then have a bit if a margin, so I doubt if mild tuning will be an issue. There is a separate problem that the MAF system can not handle cams with more overlap, but that is a different issue.