Traction question for George K!

[marky-p]

Now that the red beast has died (see R.I.P. #230 post in clio discussion) I've got my eye on a Ford Focus RS.

On looking through tuning mags such as Performance Ford I noticed that a number of people have tuned their RS's to 400bhp and beyond, however, their 0-60 times haven't improved in proportion to the power increase (in my opinion), which I suspect is due to traction issues being that too much power being put through front wheels.

For example, a 0-60 time of around 5.5secs or less for a 350-400bhp RS.

Although I've probably got the basic idea right, I was hoping someone could explain this in a more technical way so that I don't end up wasting £'s on pointless bhp/torque...................George K, do you have the answer?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Iirc FRS's respond well to a aftermarket manifold, exhaust & Bluefin.

Well be plenty of extra bhp & torque.

Answering your question, I'd say yes....the times don't dramatically improve due to traction issues.

 

[drexel]

If you want to mod your focus, go to graham goodes in leicester. One of the best performance ford/scooby/mits specialist in the country!

 

[oliie]

Putting anything more than 250bhp through just the front wheels is a waste of money. Even if you get traction it will be a pig to drive.

If you want power then you need 4wd, or at the minimum, RWD.

O.

 

[George K]

I would tend to agree that over 250 bhp is a problem for FWD - particularly as the reardward weight transfer on a saloon is considerable. There are ways of reducing this effect with unusual damper settings, but in general this will destroy the ride.

One trick is that a really could mapper could restrict the torque in first and second - quite common on high powered production cars - albeit then the reason is to give the gearbox an easier time.

Traction control via a Race technology system may help a bit.

The Santa Pod specialists run much lower tyre pressures, but then there is a handling trade off.

All things are possible, but I would suggest that if you want this much power 4WD is the only sane answer for road use, particularly when to factor in our poor roads and regular wet conditions.

Then thje question is what ot get if you want ot avoid the dreaded Evo/STi route. It is possible to sort the S3 and there is now an option for the Haldex system (not a true 4WD system, but good off the line) which make the rear wheel connection quite a lot more aggressive.

 

[Cue]

I think i heard somewhere that an senior Alpha/Saab engineer had said the maximum that should be put thru the front wheels is 280 bhp, beyond that and it's counter productive and will effectively slow the car when trying to do anything that resembles driving and not drag stripping.

That said the gearbox would be kaput within 5k with that amount of stress going through it.

Still don't understand why the didn't make the RS 4wd, after all it's meant to be the rally car's younger brother isn't it?

 

[George K]

Cue - in a few words cost and totally new type approval

 

[Steve]

212bhp quite enough for that car, not many other FWD hatches can match it's sub-6 second 0-60 time, you can get more out it quite easily (forced induction) but why bother? It will only highlight the car's flaws and you'll never beat a Scooby or Evo in a drag race (280bhp Clio can't do better than 5 seconds), better to lighten it instead, or even leave it alone!

 

[oliie]

I
Then thje question is what ot get if you want ot avoid the dreaded Evo/STi route.

Saab 9-2

Edit: or 330xi supercharged... in touring form! Woohooo

O.

 

[marky-p]

I would tend to agree that over 250 bhp is a problem for FWD - particularly as the reardward weight transfer on a saloon is considerable. There are ways of reducing this effect with unusual damper settings, but in general this will destroy the ride.

One trick is that a really could mapper could restrict the torque in first and second - quite common on high powered production cars - albeit then the reason is to give the gearbox an easier time.

Traction control via a Race technology system may help a bit.

The Santa Pod specialists run much lower tyre pressures, but then there is a handling trade off.

All things are possible, but I would suggest that if you want this much power 4WD is the only sane answer for road use, particularly when to factor in our poor roads and regular wet conditions.

Then thje question is what ot get if you want ot avoid the dreaded Evo/STi route. It is possible to sort the S3 and there is now an option for the Haldex system (not a true 4WD system, but good off the line) which make the rear wheel connection quite a lot more aggressive.

As much as I try to convince myself to go the Evo/Sti route I'll always think they're ugly and heavy-ish cars, and money is a limiting factor for me as they're both insurance group 20 and have awful mpg consumptions. Unfortunately, there aren't any other 4wd/Rwd cars that I desire or can afford.

I saw one Focus RS 'Cosworth' with about 330bhp in this month's Performance Ford mag which had a Rwd conversion. What do think the cost implications would be for this type of work and do you think it would be worthwhile and cost effective?

 

[Steve]

There's an RS8 mod that the yanks do, they stick a 5 litre Ford 'Cammer' V8 under the bonnet (a very compact lightweight V8 designed for the custom car market) and do a rear drive conversion (essential for the packaging of the V8 as well as to make it a worthwhile power incrrease). All in it costs about $5000 on top of the price of the RS. Out of the box it delivers 300bhp and 400lb/ft torque, easily tunable to 400-450bhp without even looking at superchargers. Oh, and they put a small 8 badge after the RS one. Awesome Q car appeal, it would eat a Scooby for breakfast and has a nice V8 soundtrack.

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/focus_rs8.asp

Found a link, here we go...

 

[drexel]

Now that is nice. ive always wanted a rs, stop tempting me!

 

[marky-p]

An RS with 4WD though.........now that would be nice!

 

[Portland]

An RS with 4WD though.........now that would be nice!

There's lucky then!

 

[Steve]

That's right Marky-P, the new one will have 4WD and over 300bhp, someone on here found a link for it. :lol:

I would wait.