Lightness Revisited - A 172 Cup Adventure.
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Alignment Adventure. Part 1.
May 2026.
I've been wanting to get the Cup over to Chong at Atec Align for a little while now and finally this week, managed to get the car booked in for an initial session. The Cup has felt pretty good chassis-wise, both on the road and on the hill, but clattering a pot hole on the way back from the last meeting had me thinking I really ought to look at the numbers to make sure it's ok and see if any tweaks could be done.
The car has always driven with the hint that there's a fair bit of toe-out on the front end, something which I quite like, but on track just feels like it needs some extra negative camber. The car tracks straight and true beautifully and does currently feel pretty confidence inspiring but I know there's a smidgen more grip to eke out of it yet, even before sticky tyres are added.
The mornings work activities completed, I whizzed over to the unit and rolled the Cup out into a changeable day of weather, one minute warm and sunny, the next pelting it down. As I joined the local motorway, I couldn't help but roll my eyes as we were caught yet again in more torrential rain. I'd left myself with what I thought to be plenty of time for our trip over the Pennines, but the congestion on the M62 had other ideas. I've mentioned previously that the Cup hates any sort of slow moving stop-start traffic, so after a few miles of this on the motorway I decided to dive off and take an old route which I used to love back in the day when I had my 1st 172 Cup new.
The A640 out of Denshaw over to Huddersfield is an excellent ribbon of tarmac, or at least it used to be.. Now hampered by new lower limits for much of the interesting stuff, I find myself frustrated in the Cup. It wants to run a bit on a road like this, but at the new limits it feels completely hamstrung, it's hard to get a car like this to flow and feel settled at such a reined-in pace, it doesn't do justice to the car or the road, and the whole experience just feels stiff, disjointed and stifled. The last time I came along this road was a couple of years back in the 60 odd year old Mini and had an absolute hoot of a time, I seem to recall it was still all NSL back then and the old 998 just romped along, as I crawl along in the Cup I can't help but despair slightly at the state of things these days.
It takes at least 1/2 an hour longer than it should to get to Chong's but I arrive in time for the appointment at least. We pop the Cup up on the ramp and take some measurements, it's all looking reasonably decent, it could do with more camber on the front, but what really impresses is how close all the settings are side to side and how straight the rear beam set-up is. So, base numbers sorted, it's now up to me to get the plan in place for the next phase. Having a close look at things with Chong, it's going to make sense to refresh some of the hardware and the track rods. As a track orientated car, everything needs to be a little bit newer and more easily adjustable underneath. What I do have now though is a great starting point from which to fine tune it and get it all dialled in. I had hoped that I might be further on with this by now, but we've had a lot on lately. I trundle back over the Pennines, working out which parts I'm going to need, what I've got 'in-stock' and what I'll need to source, my self imposed season budget is looking evermore inadequate...
In a couple of days I'm booked on to the Academy Day at Harewood, so I'm hoping what I'm currently lacking in final chassis fine tuning I can offset by gaining more track time, knowledge and practice. A day to look forward to, I just hope the rain holds off, at least for the 'track walk' part, there's nothing worse than damp race pumps.
May 2026.
I've been wanting to get the Cup over to Chong at Atec Align for a little while now and finally this week, managed to get the car booked in for an initial session. The Cup has felt pretty good chassis-wise, both on the road and on the hill, but clattering a pot hole on the way back from the last meeting had me thinking I really ought to look at the numbers to make sure it's ok and see if any tweaks could be done.
The car has always driven with the hint that there's a fair bit of toe-out on the front end, something which I quite like, but on track just feels like it needs some extra negative camber. The car tracks straight and true beautifully and does currently feel pretty confidence inspiring but I know there's a smidgen more grip to eke out of it yet, even before sticky tyres are added.
The mornings work activities completed, I whizzed over to the unit and rolled the Cup out into a changeable day of weather, one minute warm and sunny, the next pelting it down. As I joined the local motorway, I couldn't help but roll my eyes as we were caught yet again in more torrential rain. I'd left myself with what I thought to be plenty of time for our trip over the Pennines, but the congestion on the M62 had other ideas. I've mentioned previously that the Cup hates any sort of slow moving stop-start traffic, so after a few miles of this on the motorway I decided to dive off and take an old route which I used to love back in the day when I had my 1st 172 Cup new.
The A640 out of Denshaw over to Huddersfield is an excellent ribbon of tarmac, or at least it used to be.. Now hampered by new lower limits for much of the interesting stuff, I find myself frustrated in the Cup. It wants to run a bit on a road like this, but at the new limits it feels completely hamstrung, it's hard to get a car like this to flow and feel settled at such a reined-in pace, it doesn't do justice to the car or the road, and the whole experience just feels stiff, disjointed and stifled. The last time I came along this road was a couple of years back in the 60 odd year old Mini and had an absolute hoot of a time, I seem to recall it was still all NSL back then and the old 998 just romped along, as I crawl along in the Cup I can't help but despair slightly at the state of things these days.
It takes at least 1/2 an hour longer than it should to get to Chong's but I arrive in time for the appointment at least. We pop the Cup up on the ramp and take some measurements, it's all looking reasonably decent, it could do with more camber on the front, but what really impresses is how close all the settings are side to side and how straight the rear beam set-up is. So, base numbers sorted, it's now up to me to get the plan in place for the next phase. Having a close look at things with Chong, it's going to make sense to refresh some of the hardware and the track rods. As a track orientated car, everything needs to be a little bit newer and more easily adjustable underneath. What I do have now though is a great starting point from which to fine tune it and get it all dialled in. I had hoped that I might be further on with this by now, but we've had a lot on lately. I trundle back over the Pennines, working out which parts I'm going to need, what I've got 'in-stock' and what I'll need to source, my self imposed season budget is looking evermore inadequate...
In a couple of days I'm booked on to the Academy Day at Harewood, so I'm hoping what I'm currently lacking in final chassis fine tuning I can offset by gaining more track time, knowledge and practice. A day to look forward to, I just hope the rain holds off, at least for the 'track walk' part, there's nothing worse than damp race pumps.
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Taking a bit of curb.. (Photo credit: Chris Bannister @ JCB Photography).
The approach to Orchard, Harewood Open Hillclimb, May 2026.
hoolio
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So I guess you will be leaving the rear settings as factory? What about the fronts? I always thought mine was toe out but going through the posts on here from years ago I might have toe in. (something I will need to be making a decision on soon)
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Yes, I'll be leaving the rear well alone for now Jules, it's running a matching set of camber and toe, as close to perfect as I think you'd find really, which is pretty amazing for a 24 year old car! Both Chong and myself were pretty shocked to be honest!
The front, I'll be running a fair bit of toe out (slightly more than I do on a pure road car such as the Trophy) and dialling in as much camber as the bolts will give me, approx 1.75 degrees.
Are you sure you're reading your alignment print outs correctly, toe out is recorded conversely as a minus figure on the front axle. Avoid any sort of toe-in on the front end Jules. Someone once mistakenly set up my Trophy the wrong way round on the readings - toeing it in instead of out and it handled like a complete dog, almost undriveable and verging on dangerous! I'd recommend 7minutes per side, so 14minutes toe-out total on a Trophy is a sweet spot for the road.
hoolio
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Yes I think I must have been mistaken when I posted that back then. There was no readout, Mark Fish Performed the adjustment with bits of string and sticks (and about a million years of experience) so I never had anything to refer back to. After I had the toe dialled in it felt far more settled so I suspect toe out was dialled in and pretty sure it was ten minutes though not certain if it was in total or on each side i‘m slightly embarrassed to admit.
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I'm currently on 12minutes per side on the Cup, it's too much for the road really but feels very planted and turns in an absolute treat on the hill.
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Harewood Hillclimb Academy Day.
May, 2026.
Arriving at Harewood on a wet Thursday morning.
I’ve had high expectations of this day for quite some time. When I booked on, sometime in 2025 I was only just forming my hillclimb plans. Back then it was; do the Academy Day and see if you like it… Tony Pickering was instrumental in this, and without his kind encouragement, none of my aspirations to ‘give it a go’ would ever have come to fruition, so in a way it was a catalyst.
However, due to my slightly impulsive nature, things have not played out quite as planned. In those first innocent thoughts of driving the hill, I didn’t factor in finding myself in the situation of being a couple of competitive events in, and in a completely different car to the one I thought I’d be in. This day was destined to be a nice jolly day out to exercise the Trophy a bit, but no, I’ve gone the whole hog and am turning up in race overalls with a lairy Clio 172 Cup companion. Perhaps I should have stuck to the original format of a pair of jeans, a long sleeved T and the Trophy to tour up in, but circumstances dictate I’m in the the Cup and we’re both eager for some tangible improvements.
I’m the 1st car to arrive for the day, rolling into an oddly deserted paddock at around 7:45. It’s been a horrid wet - isn’t it always - journey over to Yorkshire and the damp track and surroundings seem to reflect my mood, I just want one run out in this car not to involve torrential rain! The day kicks off well, with coffee and as many biscuits to sate anyone’s second breakfast cravings. There’s some eclectic and interesting metal turning up too, beautiful Jag XK120/150’s, some rare Allard’s, a little Moggy Minor alongside some Skoda’s and Porsche’s. It’s a good reflection of the Harewood Paddock on race day really and something I’ve loved about this place for the last 30 odd years or more. It attracts an enthusiast audience.
Spot the guys who are taking it all a bit seriously... (Photo Credit: Phill Andrews)
There’s a bit of an introductory chat, then we’re split up into small groups and get straight into the action. The best and slowest part of the day for me is the track walk. It’s brilliant. Our instructor James Kerr delivers an excellent insight into the nuances of the course, cambers, angles and apexes, potential track conditions, it’s all very enlightening stuff. This is the most focussing part of the day for me and I have to re-learn how to write at speed into my little red notebook.
Much like when James folds himself into the Clio for the 1st instructor run. Re-learning is all part of the game. I don’t want to be too sedate, conversely I don’t want to drive like an idiot either. I discover it’s really difficult driving with someone who’s there to critique. I generally make a hash of things and James has some words to say as we return to the Paddock. It’s not really the start I’d hoped for.
Classic Clio Cup cornering capers...
We get in another good few runs at the hill on our own after this, but I’m perturbed. James’ comments about my admittedly ham fisted at times run have thrown me off kilter. I find myself tense and agitated during the solo runs, trying to alter my technique to suit someone else’s observations. As such I’m all over the place. I’m missing lines, apexes, gear selection and braking zones everywhere. It’s a dogs dinner and I’m really not having a good time. Just before lunch, I grab a moment with Tony, he says some words which I find incredibly useful and I go into lunch slightly more settled.
The lunch is great, everyone else seems to be having a lovely time, I still feel a bit out of sorts, but try my best to be jolly. If you were just here for a bit of fun, it would be fantastic. I decide I’m over-thinking things.
As ever, an eclectic mix of Harewood machinery.
After lunch, I take the advice of my friend and adopt a more positive attitude . The track has dried out and they’ve taken the marker cones away now, which for me, is better. I can concentrate on the notes I made in my book and the visuals from the track walk. It’s less prescribed, which suits me. The runs start to flow, I’m more in tune with the car and the course again. James hops in for another instructor session, everything’s a bit smoother this time I hope, and he makes some encouraging noises. We end on a handshake after the debrief in the paddock which feels like a nice moment, despite some airborne clattering over the curb I subjected him to in the last corner..
The afternoon pans out, we move to an ‘open pit lane’ scenario towards the end, which I approach with caution, the Cup does not take kindly to ‘hot-lapping’. I manage to squeeze in a couple of runs at the end of the day which feel really good, a sweet spot and high point to end on.
We reconvene back to the barn for more coffee and biscuits. Oddly the mood today has been more competitive than I’d anticipated - weirdly more competitive chit chat than on an actual competition day, and I’m mixed about the lack of timing, I understand it would be a nightmare on the day with the personalities of a mixed group, but for those of us who are competing it is slightly frustrating to do what you feel is a ‘good run’ and have no reference point in terms of timing. We’ll just have to wait until June.
Day over, nearly the last to leave.
Tired, I embark on the drive home, it starts off well, the Cup lolloping along at a nice canter betwixt the cow-parsley flushed lanes of North Yorkshire, I scoot over the hills then sadly hit the sort of gridlock only an old Lancashire mill town populated by oversized vehicles unfit for their surroundings can serve up.
So, back to the Academy Day. I’m slightly mixed about it. On the one hand, as a jolly day, it’s a great experience and the level of work by all concerned is really to be admired, the day ran like clockwork and the expertise on hand was second to none. For me though; would it have encouraged me to have a go at competing? … No, I don’t think it would, my enthusiasm would have been quelled, the complexities of the course are daunting on a taster day such as this. Was it useful where I am now, yes, but I’m glad in a way that I already had some experience on the hill under my belt. I will now have to see if I can put into practice some of the insights gained.
May, 2026.
Arriving at Harewood on a wet Thursday morning.
I’ve had high expectations of this day for quite some time. When I booked on, sometime in 2025 I was only just forming my hillclimb plans. Back then it was; do the Academy Day and see if you like it… Tony Pickering was instrumental in this, and without his kind encouragement, none of my aspirations to ‘give it a go’ would ever have come to fruition, so in a way it was a catalyst.
However, due to my slightly impulsive nature, things have not played out quite as planned. In those first innocent thoughts of driving the hill, I didn’t factor in finding myself in the situation of being a couple of competitive events in, and in a completely different car to the one I thought I’d be in. This day was destined to be a nice jolly day out to exercise the Trophy a bit, but no, I’ve gone the whole hog and am turning up in race overalls with a lairy Clio 172 Cup companion. Perhaps I should have stuck to the original format of a pair of jeans, a long sleeved T and the Trophy to tour up in, but circumstances dictate I’m in the the Cup and we’re both eager for some tangible improvements.
I’m the 1st car to arrive for the day, rolling into an oddly deserted paddock at around 7:45. It’s been a horrid wet - isn’t it always - journey over to Yorkshire and the damp track and surroundings seem to reflect my mood, I just want one run out in this car not to involve torrential rain! The day kicks off well, with coffee and as many biscuits to sate anyone’s second breakfast cravings. There’s some eclectic and interesting metal turning up too, beautiful Jag XK120/150’s, some rare Allard’s, a little Moggy Minor alongside some Skoda’s and Porsche’s. It’s a good reflection of the Harewood Paddock on race day really and something I’ve loved about this place for the last 30 odd years or more. It attracts an enthusiast audience.
Spot the guys who are taking it all a bit seriously... (Photo Credit: Phill Andrews)
There’s a bit of an introductory chat, then we’re split up into small groups and get straight into the action. The best and slowest part of the day for me is the track walk. It’s brilliant. Our instructor James Kerr delivers an excellent insight into the nuances of the course, cambers, angles and apexes, potential track conditions, it’s all very enlightening stuff. This is the most focussing part of the day for me and I have to re-learn how to write at speed into my little red notebook.
Much like when James folds himself into the Clio for the 1st instructor run. Re-learning is all part of the game. I don’t want to be too sedate, conversely I don’t want to drive like an idiot either. I discover it’s really difficult driving with someone who’s there to critique. I generally make a hash of things and James has some words to say as we return to the Paddock. It’s not really the start I’d hoped for.
Classic Clio Cup cornering capers...
We get in another good few runs at the hill on our own after this, but I’m perturbed. James’ comments about my admittedly ham fisted at times run have thrown me off kilter. I find myself tense and agitated during the solo runs, trying to alter my technique to suit someone else’s observations. As such I’m all over the place. I’m missing lines, apexes, gear selection and braking zones everywhere. It’s a dogs dinner and I’m really not having a good time. Just before lunch, I grab a moment with Tony, he says some words which I find incredibly useful and I go into lunch slightly more settled.
The lunch is great, everyone else seems to be having a lovely time, I still feel a bit out of sorts, but try my best to be jolly. If you were just here for a bit of fun, it would be fantastic. I decide I’m over-thinking things.
As ever, an eclectic mix of Harewood machinery.
After lunch, I take the advice of my friend and adopt a more positive attitude . The track has dried out and they’ve taken the marker cones away now, which for me, is better. I can concentrate on the notes I made in my book and the visuals from the track walk. It’s less prescribed, which suits me. The runs start to flow, I’m more in tune with the car and the course again. James hops in for another instructor session, everything’s a bit smoother this time I hope, and he makes some encouraging noises. We end on a handshake after the debrief in the paddock which feels like a nice moment, despite some airborne clattering over the curb I subjected him to in the last corner..
The afternoon pans out, we move to an ‘open pit lane’ scenario towards the end, which I approach with caution, the Cup does not take kindly to ‘hot-lapping’. I manage to squeeze in a couple of runs at the end of the day which feel really good, a sweet spot and high point to end on.
We reconvene back to the barn for more coffee and biscuits. Oddly the mood today has been more competitive than I’d anticipated - weirdly more competitive chit chat than on an actual competition day, and I’m mixed about the lack of timing, I understand it would be a nightmare on the day with the personalities of a mixed group, but for those of us who are competing it is slightly frustrating to do what you feel is a ‘good run’ and have no reference point in terms of timing. We’ll just have to wait until June.
Day over, nearly the last to leave.
Tired, I embark on the drive home, it starts off well, the Cup lolloping along at a nice canter betwixt the cow-parsley flushed lanes of North Yorkshire, I scoot over the hills then sadly hit the sort of gridlock only an old Lancashire mill town populated by oversized vehicles unfit for their surroundings can serve up.
So, back to the Academy Day. I’m slightly mixed about it. On the one hand, as a jolly day, it’s a great experience and the level of work by all concerned is really to be admired, the day ran like clockwork and the expertise on hand was second to none. For me though; would it have encouraged me to have a go at competing? … No, I don’t think it would, my enthusiasm would have been quelled, the complexities of the course are daunting on a taster day such as this. Was it useful where I am now, yes, but I’m glad in a way that I already had some experience on the hill under my belt. I will now have to see if I can put into practice some of the insights gained.
NickReilly063
ClioTrophy Moderator
Loving the 3 wheeling Ed - awesome 
Ajracer
ClioTrophy Club Member
Great insight into biting the Hillclimb bug Ed.
I had 30 fantastic years in various cars and if you don’t get too serious(which costs a lot of money and time) you can have a fantastic hobby through the summer months.
keep going mate!
I had 30 fantastic years in various cars and if you don’t get too serious(which costs a lot of money and time) you can have a fantastic hobby through the summer months.
keep going mate!
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Cheers Andy. I’m looking forward to the June weekend meeting, 2 days on the Hill. I was hoping my tyre plans might have come to fruition by then, but struggling to decide on a set of wheels. The tyres I want aren’t available in the Cup Turini size, which has been a bit frustrating.
Ajracer
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Agreed. I ran my BG on Nankang NS-2R with Turini wheels as at the time it was the tyre of choice.
To to be honest I wasn’t impressed and any level of extra grip was negligible over a MPS 3!
Swapping to 15” gives you more options and better road holding