Surely to make it more fair then nik will have to get a Clio Cup racer?
complaining to renault
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'Clio cup' spec is a standard williams, as the williams had a front track based on the clio cup :wink:
The car is standard, even has a paper filter, and cat. Just got to do the track rods, bushes, springs and shocks done and weld the steering column and im ready.
The car is standard, even has a paper filter, and cat. Just got to do the track rods, bushes, springs and shocks done and weld the steering column and im ready.
lol, may sound harsh but you should really look at the product your buying, especially for £15k, this is entirely your own fault unfortunately. I can't believe you didn't open the bonnet to have just a quick look... :roll:
I see the Trophy as a 172 Cup, but with pimp wheels and sorted suspension.
Glad to see you have bought another Williams, will this one actually ever make it onto track, or will it be sat on a driveway with a cover over it?
I see the Trophy as a 172 Cup, but with pimp wheels and sorted suspension.
Glad to see you have bought another Williams, will this one actually ever make it onto track, or will it be sat on a driveway with a cover over it?
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Its already sat on my drive with a cover over it. Over the next two weeks tha car is going to be put on stands and stripped bare. Then my mate is coming over to seam weld it. 8)
Best place for a Trophy / Williams face off should be the Nurburgring, long enough for the car to really show what it can do. This Spring?
But making it a race-prepared Williams versus a standard Trophy is already an acknowledgement of defeat...
But making it a race-prepared Williams versus a standard Trophy is already an acknowledgement of defeat...
King Stromba said:
wow, sounds like you are actually serious! I'll actually look forward to this, will give some of your views on trackdays some credability at least
can I ask you a serious question? why have 3 Williams? I mean okay, you love them, but 1 you can't really drive for obvious reasons, the other you dont drive because you have spent too much... you then buy another car to not drive... what's the point of it all, you not view it as dead money? you do know eventually your cars will come to someone like me and those low mile or rebuilt engines will get used daily... will this one go the same way, end up too mint to be used as a car let alone a track car in other words? (serious questions, i'm not taking the piss here... for a change :lol: )
ChrisB, I'm planning on going to the Ring next summer if all goes to plan, i'll give your Trophy a go, my suspension is stock...
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Firsty chris b, i think its fair that my car is allowed to be welded as after 127,000 miles the chassis will be soggy which will seriously hamper track performance. The trophies are all low mileage new cars and so have very stiff chassis as they havent fatuigued yet. A seam welded williams is just putting the chassis back to its original 'rigid' condition, and is fair game in my view. Other wise you are compareing a stiff chassis with a tired old one.
As for the jesus, i dont drive 0002 that much for obvious reasons. I set my self the goal of rebuilding 0200 to the standard of the 0048 car that renault own in their historic collection. You cant improve a car if it is being driven in the winter. Once the car is how i want it to be it will get driven, and i will then maintain it in its showroom condition.
The new car is a track car. It will get driven and money will be spent to make it mechanically sound. Buit eventually i am aware that parts will become difficult to find for 0002 and 0200, so this car will then become a donor car. For a few grand i have a spare engine, gearbox, shell and interior. I was going to buy a shell anyway to reshell 0200 and this way i have one with engine and gb for not much more. Plus i can swap wheels and parts if all my cars are the same and it makes things alot easier. The new car's engine has done 100,000 and is pretty strong. It pulls well, better than 0200 did before the rebuild. Id say its about as fast as Jills 172 in a straight line, which is pretty good as her 172 is a quick one. The chassis is also in bettwe condition than 0200's chassis. Its definately more rigid.
The car will never depreciate in value as its scrap value is close to the money i payed for it. Its a good investemnt in my opinion.
As for the jesus, i dont drive 0002 that much for obvious reasons. I set my self the goal of rebuilding 0200 to the standard of the 0048 car that renault own in their historic collection. You cant improve a car if it is being driven in the winter. Once the car is how i want it to be it will get driven, and i will then maintain it in its showroom condition.
The new car is a track car. It will get driven and money will be spent to make it mechanically sound. Buit eventually i am aware that parts will become difficult to find for 0002 and 0200, so this car will then become a donor car. For a few grand i have a spare engine, gearbox, shell and interior. I was going to buy a shell anyway to reshell 0200 and this way i have one with engine and gb for not much more. Plus i can swap wheels and parts if all my cars are the same and it makes things alot easier. The new car's engine has done 100,000 and is pretty strong. It pulls well, better than 0200 did before the rebuild. Id say its about as fast as Jills 172 in a straight line, which is pretty good as her 172 is a quick one. The chassis is also in bettwe condition than 0200's chassis. Its definately more rigid.
The car will never depreciate in value as its scrap value is close to the money i payed for it. Its a good investemnt in my opinion.
agree with you to a point on the chassis welding, but either way you will never get a fair comparison when comparing a brand new car to one that is 12 years old. doesn't matter how well maintained, or how low miles they are, they are old and as a result not the same as when new. my last engine was very strong right up until it failed, but the new one is from a 1999 car and it shows, but wasn't that fast at first as it had too low miles, implying it spent most of it's time not running (which it had). too many variables in other words, best thing is to get a few of each car and find an average, i'd imagine the Trophy will be the quicker better car though overall for above reasons. (still annoyed I never got to drive one too :evil: )
I'm just surprised at you KS for getting a Williams as a track car, very good choice, but didn't think you would be able to bring yourself to do it. why didn't you get a hybrid, as I imagine you will be replacing all the breaks and suspension anyway?
Get some vids of your cars up doing some 0-whatever and some ingear runs, I want to see if they are as fast as you say. also one of Jills would be good for comparative purposes.
I'm just surprised at you KS for getting a Williams as a track car, very good choice, but didn't think you would be able to bring yourself to do it. why didn't you get a hybrid, as I imagine you will be replacing all the breaks and suspension anyway?
Get some vids of your cars up doing some 0-whatever and some ingear runs, I want to see if they are as fast as you say. also one of Jills would be good for comparative purposes.
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Well, i dont do 0-whatever as i think its a waste of a good clutch. But i can try to do some in car footage. Jills car has been driven by most on cliosport (roamer, yozza etc i think) and its known as a quick 172. I think Jill did a 15.something on her first ever 1/4 mile on 17's, so i have no doubt it could be in the 14's.
know what you mean, but see about some rolling 1st and 2nd gear starts, would be interested to see what it goes like. or even a head to head against the 172. If it's a standard Willy there's not many that can 1/4 mile in 14 seconds standard, those are the ones that usually go on to run 14.0
iirc 2 live and Andy Northrop are the ones to beat for standard Williams, 14.6 and 14.8 or something like that
iirc 2 live and Andy Northrop are the ones to beat for standard Williams, 14.6 and 14.8 or something like that
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Your actaully quite reasonable to discuss things with when your not trying to show off infront of your williamsclio mates.
I dont know if it would do a sub 15 quater mile. I cant ring its neck until i get the steering welded as i have no confidence i wont end up in a hedge as the car steers itself. The car also needs track rods as the knuckle joints are worn and this is adding to the problem. The car is on 195's which are way to crashy for my liking, but they do turn in well. I may run 195's front and 185's rear on track.
Tbh i think Andys is fast because its in the sweet spot for mileage.40,000 is the fully run in but not old enough to be worn stage.
I dont know if it would do a sub 15 quater mile. I cant ring its neck until i get the steering welded as i have no confidence i wont end up in a hedge as the car steers itself. The car also needs track rods as the knuckle joints are worn and this is adding to the problem. The car is on 195's which are way to crashy for my liking, but they do turn in well. I may run 195's front and 185's rear on track.
Tbh i think Andys is fast because its in the sweet spot for mileage.40,000 is the fully run in but not old enough to be worn stage.
I'll take firsty as a compliment, thanks.
I hope to be at the Ring a few times this year, will get a year pass first time I can get there in the Spring, and I'll gladly compare times of a standard Trophy and a standard Williams, if I've still got the Trophy this summer ! Are there any magazine times for the Williams at the Ring ? I expect a good BTG Trophy time would be 8.30-8.40, but haven't seen any official times.
I hope to be at the Ring a few times this year, will get a year pass first time I can get there in the Spring, and I'll gladly compare times of a standard Trophy and a standard Williams, if I've still got the Trophy this summer ! Are there any magazine times for the Williams at the Ring ? I expect a good BTG Trophy time would be 8.30-8.40, but haven't seen any official times.
likewise Stromba, when your not bringing personal agenda into the mix
as regards tyres for track my 185's were not the best, to much roll and flex... you want to see the state of the sidewalls... the wing mirrors were practically touching the ground most corners. i'd deffo go for a 50 profile even if you dont go 195, you'll catch your elbows on the floor otherwise!
Not sure what miles Andy's is on now, 40k sounds about right though, I don't think it will see many more under his ownership though... can't understand it myself, if you enjoy it, drive it, why worry about miles :? new engines are easy as hell to get hold of cheap these days
as regards tyres for track my 185's were not the best, to much roll and flex... you want to see the state of the sidewalls... the wing mirrors were practically touching the ground most corners. i'd deffo go for a 50 profile even if you dont go 195, you'll catch your elbows on the floor otherwise!
Not sure what miles Andy's is on now, 40k sounds about right though, I don't think it will see many more under his ownership though... can't understand it myself, if you enjoy it, drive it, why worry about miles :? new engines are easy as hell to get hold of cheap these days
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0002 feels 100 times better than 0200 even though 0200 has been rebuilt. Its just tighter and faster. Low mileage cars are better, unless your going to rebuild everything. You need to do the shell, gearbox, mounts, engine, seats (even they start to squeek and rock), gear linkages, window switches. Low mileage cars are tight. Ols ones are always going to feel used.
And i dont see why you think i have an agenda. I dont have any agenda other than learning about my car and sharing that info with other enthusiasts. .
And i dont see why you think i have an agenda. I dont have any agenda other than learning about my car and sharing that info with other enthusiasts. .
that seems strange to me, as a rebuilt engine is a new engine if done properly. look at 2 lives rebuilt engine, it's the quickest Willy one about (proven anyway) and his old one was not far off the pace wih 70'odd k on the clock.
by agenda I mean relentless pursuit of trying to make a point no matter what... but that's for another time and place. maybe when we are old and wise we can discuss it over an ale and cigar... lol
by agenda I mean relentless pursuit of trying to make a point no matter what... but that's for another time and place. maybe when we are old and wise we can discuss it over an ale and cigar... lol
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Its not the engine, its the chassis and other accessory parts. Unless you get the chassis welded it will be floppy. This greatly reduces the grip and turn in of the car. A strut brace will help but it really has to be welded.
I guarnetee that even cars on 70,000 will have flex in their chassis. Jack up the front of the car and try closing the door on the same side of the jack. If it doesnt close cleanly you need your chassis welding.
I guarnetee that even cars on 70,000 will have flex in their chassis. Jack up the front of the car and try closing the door on the same side of the jack. If it doesnt close cleanly you need your chassis welding.
yeah, see what you mean, if the suspension geomatry is also out (which it prolly is on most Willy's by now) or there are worm parts then putting the power down will be a bit more problematic... I noticed an outrageous amount of grip that had never existed before when I replaced the whole front suspension and tbh didn't think it could be bettered... it's certainly better than those GAZ coilovers, the white TB'd clio with Mehdi driving had no chance, I'd say those things are worse than std, but they deffo let you get the power down better it would seem.
Luckily my door closes fine when jacked up, as I'm forever leaving bits in the car (and shit in general... ). I therefore 'hope' it's one of the better parts of the car, but I think changing suspension deffo helped as the car doesn't go onto 3 wheels half as much as others I have noticed... 3 wheelin' must cause some serious flex i'd have thought.
Think i'm going to go to coilovers one day though, if they are decent ones and are setup well they are fantastic, AVO's will be my first choice due to price and they are very nice to drive with. I'm not spending any money on the engine after it's mapped... it's fast enough for the time being, still scares me from time to time anyway.
Luckily my door closes fine when jacked up, as I'm forever leaving bits in the car (and shit in general...
). I therefore 'hope' it's one of the better parts of the car, but I think changing suspension deffo helped as the car doesn't go onto 3 wheels half as much as others I have noticed... 3 wheelin' must cause some serious flex i'd have thought.Think i'm going to go to coilovers one day though, if they are decent ones and are setup well they are fantastic, AVO's will be my first choice due to price and they are very nice to drive with. I'm not spending any money on the engine after it's mapped... it's fast enough for the time being, still scares me from time to time anyway.