The holy grail hunt

[Ashtons99]

There is a lot of interesting views around vehicle mileage. I would agree a low mileage older car is nice to own but I'm not convinced it's the foremost factor in vehicle selection

Since I passed my test I've owned well over 100 cars so I feel I'm qualified to comment (irrespective of what the occasional self appointed moderator on here may think)

I have owned low mileage cars that have been poor and high mileage ones that have been amazing. My wife's aunt has a one owner 10 year old fiesta that's done 4,000 miles but it's had more wheel repairs and smart repairs than your average 100k car. Shes had the oil changed in it twice and the rear seats are worn out from her dogs.

I have owned a number of older cars with mid to high mileage with multiple owners and they have been absolutely lovely cars because the owners have cared for them mechanically and cosmetically.

My Trophy has just tipped 70k, it has had 5 owners but the car is probably the best car cosmetically relative to mileage/age I have owned in many years. I have seen three or four 30kmile 182 Clios since I bought the Trophy and they haven't inspired me at all.

All I am saying to any potential owners is don't get hung up on "looking for a low mileage car, must be sub 30k and low owners" . Broaden your horizons, research the product, know the shortcomings, and as they say "buy the seller too"

Just my thoughts and in true forum spirit all views welcome

 

[Rik Perry]

There is a lot of interesting views around vehicle mileage. I would agree a low mileage older car is nice to own but I'm not convinced it's the foremost factor in vehicle selection

Since I passed my test I've owned well over 100 cars so I feel I'm qualified to comment (irrespective of what the occasional self appointed moderator on here may think)

I have owned low mileage cars that have been poor and high mileage ones that have been amazing. My wife's aunt has a one owner 10 year old fiesta that's done 4,000 miles but it's had more wheel repairs and smart repairs than your average 100k car. Shes had the oil changed in it twice and the rear seats are worn out from her dogs.

I have owned a number of older cars with mid to high mileage with multiple owners and they have been absolutely lovely cars because the owners have cared for them mechanically and cosmetically.

My Trophy has just tipped 70k, it has had 5 owners but the car is probably the best car cosmetically relative to mileage/age I have owned in many years. I have seen three or four 30kmile 182 Clios since I bought the Trophy and they haven't inspired me at all.

All I am saying to any potential owners is don't get hung up on "looking for a low mileage car, must be sub 30k and low owners" . Broaden your horizons, research the product, know the shortcomings, and as they say "buy the seller too"

Just my thoughts and in true forum spirit all views welcome

There's a lot to be said for this advice... Some great cars out there that you could drive and enjoy rather than wrapping in cotton wool and never getting the point of why they are so good..

 

[SharkyUK]

Good points well made

 

[hoolio]

It's pretty hard not to feel a pang of jealousy when confronted by an immaculate 16k car knowing that for redundancy mine would be similar but the miles have been good fun and I also have a 14k 5GTT tucked away
So who is it in your 2nd paragraph then? Shit not me.......

 

[SharkyUK]

@Ashtons99
In fact, if you don't mind, I would like to take your post and quote it on my Trophy DriveTribe page

 

[Ashtons99]

No probs Sharky, happy to support your page.

No Hoolio not you, it was a forum member who had posted a full 10 messages over 2 topics in 6 months but took exeception to my enthusiasm towards posting on here and other forums. It was late at night so I put it down to him on his Fisher Price - My first beer

 

[hoolio]

I think your second sentence is as important as your concluding paragraph,
"I would agree a low mileage older car is nice to own but I'm not convinced it's the foremost factor in vehicle selection" It shouldn't be the foremost factor in vehicle selection but it almost always will be the foremost factor when starting a search, it is a fairly good indicator of condition and generally people are always thinking of resale value as well and a lower mileage model will always hold it's value better. Now you have to add to the mix the fact that people have finally woken up to the fact that these are seriously cool little cars and everyone including collectors want a piece of a shrinking commodity. It wasn't that long ago that they were a hard sell now if one hangs around for more that a week of so it shouts "issues". I wish I had followed my head and bought a second one to put away a little while back.

No Hoolio not you, it was a forum member who had posted a full 10 messages over 2 topics in 6 months but took exeception to my enthusiasm towards posting on here and other forums. It was late at night so I put it down to him on his Fisher Price - My first beer

I would have been mortified if it had been.

 

[SharkyUK]

The article is live - thank you

https://drivetribe.com/p/MHicam40RnWby9m9Ro968w/Sd5oQyRBTpeHuLjc7QxvWg

 

[Ashtons99]

Nice one, well written.

 

[Rik Perry]

Ultimately if you are lucky enough to find and buy a unicorn car.. You are going to need a second one to drive anyway..
It's a bit like my record collection.. I have ones that I dare not ever take out of the sleeve never mind dream of playing.. So in those cases I have 2 copy's and all my enjoyment comes from my well played version.. I do not even know if my keeper even has the song on it at all that the label shows and it's sad as it will never be used for its intended purpose to entertain..

 

[Saint27]

Good article. I think sometimes the difference can be being owned and maintained by an enthusiast or owned as a means of transport.

An enthusiast will keep the car in good shape adhering to service schedules and replacing parts with oe or more performance orientated parts, it may have a few more miles on it and owners but would have been cared for by someone who enjoys driving.

A car owned for transport may have been a second car and the cost of keeping the car "right" may not have been a priority. Quite often these can be lower mile cars with lower number of owners which have been run on the cheap and need a fair bit of dosh to rediscover the cars original magic.

A guy at work got him himself well excited by a 2005 182 with 65k miles and one owner and paid very good money for it. Downside was no belt change ever, no history of anything bar the odd oil change done locally, soggy suspension, cheap tyres, plus bodywork and a blowing pattern exhaust that was badly lopsided. After spending a £1000 on it he sold it at a loss and bought a Civic Tyoe R that was 11 years old, one owner, basic history and spent its life being rattled down a farm track. Paid well over the odds for a poor example and keeps spending money in suspension parts to make it steer straight!

I don't think there's any right or wrong way but but sometimes paying a premium for a lower mileage/ number of owners it doesn't exclude you from replacing key components to make the car that bit special again.

 

[Gordon]

All fair points Ashtons99. It's a little similar to what I've seen happen with watches. Unworn, with stickers and tags still attached are a huge premium to the same watch with all the same history (receipt, box, papers, tags and any service history) that's been enjoyed, looked after and in near perfect condition. I've seen deltas of between £8,000 and £10,000 between unworn and worn. Even more if they're sought after models. The trouble is one cannot enjoy them as they'll lose the £10,000 the minute the stickers are removed!

Cars that have been enjoyed by enthusiasts are always usually the better buy, unless the low milage one is also enthusiast owned and looked after; the latter being the holy grail. I think the low mileage aspect only applies to those seeking somewhere to store wealth. They of course will seek both low miles and enthusiast owned that's been a no expense spared love.

I blame the 2007/08 financial crash, and the subsequent perennially low interest rates, that has seen all these things (special cars, watches, wine, art etc.) all become heavily monetised as there is no financial return from traditional channels.

I'd expect the rather wealthy guy with the huge car collection that is known as RSDriver purchased a nicely used Trophy to add to his collection. He's got way more expensive cars than a red Renault to worry too much about receiving a financial return, and finding one with hugely low mileage. He'll want to drive it and enjoy it, and if it doesn't lose too much value during his ownership that's a bonus.

Harry Metcalfe is pretty unlikely to ever sell his. Not that he needs the money. He wants to enjoy it. If a buyer is in the market for fun buy on condition, history and sellers knowledge of and passion for it. Conversely if it's about a piggy bank, keep looking, and put it in a barn once it's been found and look at it when you can; strictly no driving!

Like Hoolio, I kick myself for not buying another SI 106 Rallye when in 2005/06 they were £2,500 with 40-50,000 miles. Same could be said for a Trophy. Five years ago an enthusiast owned one with good mods and about 30-40,000 miles was going for £5,000 in Sussex as I recall. Should have bought it and driven it to death.

I now face a similar quandary with my 200. Oct 2012 final run car with Cup pack, Recaro's, Speedline's, phone pack and every option one would want in Pearl White and black roof. I purchased it in 2015 from the original owner with 3,000 miles on it and it's now approaching 9,000 miles and still perfect. Last of the naturally aspirated hot hatches.

Admittedly, a privileged position to be in and a massive first world problem. Drive it or store it?

 

[swanny71]

I see my Trophy as a bit of 'free' fun, I bought at the right time and had a gut feeling they might just be about to appreciate. It'll never be worth a fortune but I'm certain that all upkeep, repairs and running costs will be covered when I eventually sell it.

 

[Karltrophy]

Its definitely moving in the right direction with prices of rare retro cars increasing. Bought my Trophy at the right time just over 2 years ago close before Christmas on 65k miles for £3400. Think I've got abit of an obsession with retro hot hatches owned my R5GTT Raider 13 years now and last month I bought a '96 mark 1 Clio 1.8 16v. Some people think I'm bonkers and wasting my money however the potential for investment looks promising...

 

[Kingpin]

Thought I would post this from youtube as seemed relevant to this thread:

 

[Diesel Meister]

This is timely as I've just started looking (hullo folks!) at these again.

Trouble is as with most things that have taken my fancy before, I have likely missed the boat! I'm personally not scared of 70-90k+ miles plus provided the car is properly maintained (will bills to prove) and has the perishables replenished regularly (ideally recently too!), but I'll admit to a slight mental barrier to 120k+ mile cars, unless recently and substantially overhauled. Silly to be obsessed with mileage really as the number says nothing of the quality of those miles - the best barometer is the condition fo the car itself and, as someone else said mentioned, your feel for the owners balance of knowledge / care / enthusiasm. The more owners the car has had, the more tempting it is to write them off, but for an attainable "ultimate" edition of something, it's no different than with your E36 / E46 M3s or 986 Boxsters (the latter remain a total bargain at present) and with much more reasonable running costs than many such cars!

I'd rather pay more for a good car that has had the work done rather than try to find a bargain and identify all the work myself - it will likely work out cheaper but more importantly it means I can enjoy the car as intended right now - surely what cars such as this should be all about?

I mean it's not like is a 250 GTO or DB4 Zagato. And I'd use one of those if I could afford to own one (albeit not as a daily hack, heh).

/wanders off to browse the forums

 

[SharkyUK]

...but more importantly it means I can enjoy the car as intended right now - surely what cars such as this should be all about?

Absolutely correct! Good luck with your search and welcome

 

[Diesel Meister]

Thank you sir!

 

[Chris197F1]

This is timely as I've just started looking (hullo folks!) at these again.

Trouble is as with most things that have taken my fancy before, I have likely missed the boat! I'm personally not scared of 70-90k+ miles plus provided the car is properly maintained (will bills to prove) and has the perishables replenished regularly (ideally recently too!), but I'll admit to a slight mental barrier to 120k+ mile cars, unless recently and substantially overhauled. Silly to be obsessed with mileage really as the number says nothing of the quality of those miles - the best barometer is the condition fo the car itself and, as someone else said mentioned, your feel for the owners balance of knowledge / care / enthusiasm. The more owners the car has had, the more tempting it is to write them off, but for an attainable "ultimate" edition of something, it's no different than with your E36 / E46 M3s or 986 Boxsters (the latter remain a total bargain at present) and with much more reasonable running costs than many such cars!

I'd rather pay more for a good car that has had the work done rather than try to find a bargain and identify all the work myself - it will likely work out cheaper but more importantly it means I can enjoy the car as intended right now - surely what cars such as this should be all about?

I mean it's not like is a 250 GTO or DB4 Zagato. And I'd use one of those if I could afford to own one (albeit not as a daily hack, heh).

/wanders off to browse the forums

I come under that 120k+ bracket you talk about and id like to think that my T is running as good as most on here but thats due to something else you mentioned, recently overhauled lol.

Dont know if anyone watched Top Gear on Sunday but they had to go out and buy a stupidly high mileage car and they chatted about the mental block people have when it comes to a car on 100k miles........

 

[dablk]

Yeah one of the factors why I sold 120 was for a Z4MC was I always wanted one, but simialr issue with magazine chat as the Trophy with lots of predicted furture values was starting to drive the prices. So was a now or never moment.
I have now gambled that i can own one and sell it after x years driving any amount of miles I like for not too far away from what i paid. So yes I did aim for a low miles option in this case.

My 2 other unicorn are now gone I am afarid. Clio Williams and Mk2 Escort Mexico/rs2000. Anything worth owning is just crazy money, anything affordable is rotten and needing a tonne of work. I don't own garage queens, just keep my cars tidy. Didnt want to have the same regrets as the Williams. So started keeping an eye on getting back into a realistic Trophies... So I'm back in 147..112k, random engine some work needed. I wont however in 5 years be potentially looking at rotten cars for silly money thinking why did i make that mistake twice.

Still a very good friend of mine a few years back decied not to buy a low miles RS500 Sierra for £8k...whoops