So What's Next....? Life after a Trophy

[where.is.lee]

I've been thinking about this for a while and keen to hear current and past owners thoughts. What's next after a Trophy?

My wife and I bought a 996 C4s 6MT as the new toy however I wouldn't call it a "replacement" maybe a distraction?

 

[NickReilly063]

Lovely colour Wesley and such a great backend -

 

[Titan]

Agreed,that red bar/section between the rear lights makes such a nice difference on the C4.

 

[marrow]

Bonus point for a rear wiper

 

[NickReilly063]

And a Sunroof - however I’m not sure they are still like an older one but keep the water channels clear.

 

[where.is.lee]

Thanks all, this is our first Porsche. Haha yes the drains are clear, have had issues with sunroof cars before. It's a great spec car in the rather rare slate grey. Like the Trophy, my favourite shot would be from the rear 3/4. You can definitely feel the 400kg+ difference when driving spiritedly. The steering though is so raw.

 

[photo_ed]

Lovely Porsche Wesley, I hope you enjoy it, certainly a little different after the Trophy.

What next after a Trophy(?) is always an interesting conundrum, and certainly had me taking a little trip down memory lane. Back in 2008 when my Dad and myself decided to sell Trophy No.69 in which we'd shared many a happy memory, we'd both moved on, him to a Megane R26 and I'd chopped in my particularly healthy racing blue 182 Cup for something sleek, silver and German, and in retrospect perhaps a little too grown up. Trophy No.69 had become sadly simply surplus to requirements.

My grown-up German car of choice was a BMW Z4 Coupe, in the 3.0 iteration rather than the full-on M version which was in all honesty unjustifiable financially. I'd been seduced by the BMW concept a few years before and remember avidly reading the article in EVO magazine about it and deciding that if it ever made it to production I'd have to have one. It was certainly a different kettle of fish to my usual diet of hot front wheel drive cars and certainly went up the road well, so long as the road was mostly straightish. During my 18 month tenure I took it on a full blown Euro-tour, down to Italy and back. A few trips to the West Coast of Scotland, a couple of trackdays at Oulton Park where it's appetite for V-Power and rear tyres were verging on alarming and nigh on bankrupting... I was in my early thirties and loving every minute of it in one way, but in another I was missing the actual driving pleasure which I could more easily achieve from a hot hatch, the BMW also wasn't particularly happy at legal speeds in the UK - hence the track day action to push the limits of the performance, there was also something odd going on with the aerodynamics and the tyres which meant that at the legal limit on the motorway the nose would constantly wander, it began to annoy me, on the continent I discovered that once over 200kph it hunkered down and tracked just fine, but that wasn't really a viable solution in the UK. And finally when I got pulled over by a pair of Gendarmes just outside Reims I knew my time with the silver coupe was drawing to a close, it had been fun diversion for a while, but for all it's straight six civility it never served up the thrills of the Renaultsports.

I distracted myself a bit more for a few years with some highly inappropriate, and quite amusing Italian metal before I knew I must once more return to my love of a well sorted French hot hatch. My 200 Cup kept that box ticked for a good while, but after my Dad passed away unexpectedly early, I made it my mission to get a Trophy again for the sheer sake of sentimentality. Thus things came full circle and I found myself once again the custodian of one of these remarkable red cars. and my revisitation to the Trophy has been nothing short of a revelation, I find it such a well accomplished little drivers car which simply suits my style of driving and my favourite roads. It's perhaps a bold statement to make, and I see and hear it on forums all the time (usually a couple of months before something goes up on Collecting Cars), but I can't envisage No.407 ever being sold while I can still enjoy driving the thing. It's an odd thing to get attached to, but all my current cars seemingly have that spell cast.

So, after my ramble, I'm guessing that for me the car that came after a Trophy eventually turned out to be.... another Trophy!

 

[Titan]

Great post as usual photo_ed.

Since you have owned both,I've often wondered what are the differences between
the Trophy and the 182 Cup?

Would it be safe to say that a Cup provides nearly as much driver enjoyment as a Trophy?

 

[sj2112]

Great post as usual photo_ed.

Since you have owned both,I've often wondered what are the differences between
the Trophy and the 182 Cup?

Would it be safe to say that a Cup provides nearly as much driver enjoyment as a Trophy?

A trophy is essentially based on a cup, but different paint/dampers/seats/wheels/spoiler

 

[mhj360]

“What comes after a Trophy” is a question I’ve been asking myself on and off. I owned my Trophy and S2000 side by side, for me the former rather exposed the latter in terms of steering feel and driving enjoyment. Without having experience of either brand, I can’t imagine there are many cars without a Lotus or Porsche badge that can rival a Trophy in terms of how it goes down a road, perhaps except for other models made by the boffins at Renault (e.g. Alpine A110 or Megane R26.R).

I decided to sell my Trophy for something more practical and liveable for daily duties. My solution rather than trying to rival its abilities, was to pick something with a similar level of rarity or emotional appeal. I stumbled across a 2009 Alfa Romeo 159 Turismo Internazionale 1750 TBI, with 37k miles and full service history, advertised for way less than it was worth. I’d always fancied one as it’s by far the prettiest saloon of the 21st century if you ask me, and there are only around 200 TI models in the UK with the 1750 TBI engine (rather than a GM derived motor). It’s the pick of the bunch as far as the 159 range goes and should hold its value pretty well given how scarce they are.

I don’t regret selling the Trophy, as there are plenty of cars out there I want to experience, but it’s definitely on the short list of ones I would own again.

 

[photo_ed]

Great post as usual photo_ed.

Since you have owned both,I've often wondered what are the differences between
the Trophy and the 182 Cup?

Would it be safe to say that a Cup provides nearly as much driver enjoyment as a Trophy?

Thanks Francis.

Well, that's a tricky question and one that I sort of have two answers to really, which sounds a bit ambiguous but I'll try and explain as succinctly as possible.

We all know the physical differences which separate the Cup from the Trophy, the trinkets, seats and trick dampers, and with the natural ability of the base Cup it was always going to be a fairly finite difference when it came to respective on road behaviour. My experience of owning and driving the two cars when new, straight out of the box is going to be now, nearly 20 odd years later, pretty much irrelevant to the examples of both on the road today. But here's also the crux of the matter, in my experience of Renaultsports, I've found that even supposedly identical models can be quite different to each other. If you'd asked me which car, Cup or Trophy back in 2005-2008 when I ran both simultaneously. My answer would have been instant and explicit, my racing blue Cup, all. day. long...

Somewhat controversial I know! But it would boil down to my direct comparison of those two actual cars, my Cup was an absolute cracker and particularly in the engine department. Back then I used to run my new cars in very quickly and very fast, and with my 182 Cup it certainly did the trick, it was driven hard from the outset and that set the whole tone, performance and driving/ownership experience of the car. Trophy No.69, on the other hand, straight out of the box felt completely flat. Yes, the chassis had that extra layer of control and clarity which the Sachs provide but the engine never had anything like the urge of my Cup and to that extent it tempered the enjoyment of that particular car, I always felt it lacked the ability to really exploit the chassis like I expected and wanted it to. If you told me that it was 20 bhp down on the Cup, it wouldn't have come as a surprise. The Cup was a whirlwind, brisk, up on it's tiptoes through the twisties, a complete hoot. But why the cars had such a disparity of engine performance I could never fathom, until many years later when it turned out that others had had the same experience with the F4R, good ones and not so good ones, it's the sort of thing you'd expect from ageing classics though, not brand new cars at the time. So, when we moved the Trophy on, there was no pang of regret at the time, in fact I missed my Cup more for many years.

But then fast forward to nearer the present, and my above mentioned quest to get another Trophy. This time around, I spent a lot of time looking and considering the cars available, hopeful in finding the 'right' one, and when I drove No.407 away from it's second owner I knew instantly I'd succeeded. My two cars of 2005, Cup and Trophy had melded together somewhere in Dieppe, that chassis had found that engine and finally the true Trophy experience unfolded. I'd found the power of of my old Cup which could now really unlock those infamous chassis tweaks, many will say ( as indeed I would have in 2005 ) that a Cup is as much fun as a Trophy, but when you get in a 'good' Trophy there's no doubt that the Trophy is a more capable and accomplished car, the fact I get in mine now and it's ability never ceases to amaze me even when compared with modern metal speaks volumes.

So, there's my two answers, yes, and no. Like all these things it's very much subjective, and everyone will have a different take, and as I've mentioned before the disparity between examples of these cars can be make or break. The thing that does keep going through my mind these days though is that when I got in my 182 Cup back in 2005, how much more 'civilised' it felt compared to the 2year old 30k mile 172 Cup which I'd traded in... now that car was something else altogether, but those tales are for another time...

 

[Titan]

Really appreciate that reply.

I guess there is always the chance that two apparently, exactly the same specced cars
will have slight differences and variables in how they both perform.
Maybe one was made on a Friday while the other was thrown together on a dreary Monday
after having a good weekend on the town

I wouldn't have nearly as much experience of driving a wide variety of cars as most on here.

I only drove a Trophy for 20/30 minutes back a few years ago so it was sort of hard to get
a proper gauge on what it was like and really capable of doing.
Apart from thinking at the time I thought the seats would have been a bit better with a
bit more bolstering.

I was just always curious as to what the differences, if any or many is between the Cup and Trophies.
I guess when you start getting into the nuances, of why a car "feels" better or worse than another,
sometimes often very hard to tell granted, it obviously can take a lot longer than a test drive to really get under the skin.

So its good to hear your take on it.

 

[SharkyUK]

Well, you certainly can't go wrong with a Porsche after a Trophy... (Damn right I'm biased!)

 

[where.is.lee]

It is a very interesting conundrum indeed. From a fun perspective if the Trophy was a 10/10 at city speeds, the C4s is probably a 6.5/10. However I think I need more seat time to make a better judgement. I've owned and driven plenty of NA 4 cylinder cars; DC5 Integra Type R (K20A), Toyota Altezza RS200 (3SGE Beams), Elise S2 (1ZZ) and BRZ (FA20). The F4R in the 182 wins in relation to off the line low end torque and useability based on my butt dyno.

Thank you for the detailed response @photo_ed I really enjoyed it. I have the 182 Cup on the bucket list as a car I may one day want to own when returning to Clio ownership. An idea is to add a set of KW V2 (no V3 for MK2 clios), lightweight forged 16" wheels and sticky road tyres. For now that is just a pipe dream.

During my search for a Trophy replacement I had explored the idea of buying a E86 Z4 coupe. I looked at both the 3.0si and the M, the 3.0si because I had a soft spot for the n52 + manual combo due to previously owning a 130i hatch in Australia (unfortunately taken out by a roo). I then did some man maths and decided I should try something different so a search for an M began. I found the M didn't suit my driving style, lacked low speed driveability and the suspension was rather busy (apparently not the case in a 3.0si). Each time I test drove an M I would use the Trophy as a benchmark on the same piece of road that I had just driven. The trophy would always come out on top and win hands down. Also the market for 2 seaters BMWs had really cooled during my search so I decided to abandon that idea.

Further in my search I had test driven a 987.1 Cayman S and a 997.1 Carrera S. In comparison the 996.2 Carrera 4s made the other two feel more like luxury cruisers. This made the decision to search for the C4s an even easy one, it was a bucket list car, similar price to a z4m, 4 seater and as prices have appreciated steadily over the years it was a a buy now or possibly never situation. Driving wise, it is smooth and surprisingly raw, I guess a given considering it is a 90s engineered and developed vehicle.

@mhj360 I agree with your sentiment regarding the Trophy as someone who also had zero experience in Renault ownership let alone a Trophy. Compared to all the fun Japanese cars I've owned, the Trophy has been extremely special, it handles city and country driving like nothing else. It also made every journey that much more enjoyable.

I have also fancied the 159 and yours is a lovely spec. I have always scrolled through the classifieds looking at them in Ti spec, especially the V6 as I had no idea they came in a turbo 4 replacing the 1.9L lump. The 159 is a beautiful car and a rare sight amongst all the other European makes on the roads. Thanks for the insight.

To conclude, have I regretted selling the Trophy? Nope. Do I miss it? Heck yes. That is being an enthusiast for you and will always on the hunt for something different.

 

[Titan]

How did you find living with the DC5 and the S2 Elise?

Was it a standardish Elise?

 

[where.is.lee]

How did you find living with the DC5 and the S2 Elise?

Was it a standardish Elise?

The DC5R was super easy to live with. I used it as my daily driver after selling the Altezza, my road bike could be left whole and put in the boot with the rear seats down. They are good cars however I found the chassis to not be as sharp/dynamic as the shorter civic Type R hatch and the k20a can be a little peaky with little torque below 2k rpm. Oversteering on track felt impossible to catch and I did loose it into the grass a couple of times at low speed. The S2 Elise (my best mates car) was my first exposure to a purpose built drivers car. It had at the time, coilovers (nitron) and exhaust, only had an open diff because it was the S model. That thing was so much fun on track, relatively easy to catch on oversteer and surprisingly driveable on the street with enough storage for an overnight bag. I used it as a daily driver for a bit and always found myself hesitating to drive it at night because of other drivers. As the Elise sits just below a camrys window line, most drivers don't notice you are next to them.

 

[Titan]

Nice reviews.

I never thought of the DC5 as having those over steering tendencies,seems Honda liked to carry that family trait over a little bit at least.

A few friends had DC2's and they definitely liked to bring their rear ends around,especially if you were caught out and lifted the throttle.

Ever since seeing my first Elise in England in 1998,I have always wanted to try one.
The S2 Toyota engined cars seem to be a good all round compromise.
Just need my six numbers to come up first though

 

[where.is.lee]

The DC5 doesn't actually have an oversteering character and is quite neutral due to its long wheelbase, it is just when it does oversteer you can't catch it as it is a very slow tempo oversteer. This means when you try to power out of the oversteer or counter steer the car, it will keep on rotating. I've never driven anything else like it. The DC2 are brilliant cars and are so different.

Totally agree RE owning an Elise, you definitely need another vehicle to get around . My friends Elise has done maybe 2000km in 7 years. It now has a fully built K24A frankenstein after the 2nd gear syncros in the 1ZZ 5 speed box went.

 

[Titan]

Yes I believe the newer Integra is far easier to live with day to day,a lot more accommodating overall.

Christ,your friend must have the neck muscles of Lewis Hamilton,that thing will shift with an engine like that

 

[where.is.lee]

Yes I believe the newer Integra is far easier to live with day to day,a lot more accommodating overall.

Christ,your friend must have the neck muscles of Lewis Hamilton,that thing will shift with an engine like that

Haha he hasn't given it a proper drive yet. Sat with the engine builder for 2 years due to covid and other things. The exhaust system is just being finalised after a 1000km run in.

Love the pug by the way! How does the 205 Gti compare the to Trophy? You probably have what most would call the dream hot hatch garage right there.