Sachs, time for a new solution?

[dablk]

Been thinking a lot about that moment it might actually be able to come back to the club.
Clearly many parts are becoming harder and harder to source which isn’t ideal.

as Sachs costs escalate and the numbers of options for servicing dwindle. Is it time for a new solution? And by that I mean as good if not better.

Anyone ever looked at what else is out there? and I don’t just mean throwing coilovers on. I’m talking decent remote reservoir kit.
Kw, riger etc.. big ticket but refurbs are now big ticket and as mentioned in the other thread. Spring cups etc aren’t getting any less rusty.

 

[glenn]

I had thought when I get my car undersealed I was going to try and take my springs to somewhere that makes one off items and get a price for us and will just get rear cup dampers as I'm not willing to pay silly money for the rear sachs when they do come up for sale.

Never gave the fronts a thought with the refurb route still available but surely after 15 years there could be a better or as good as equivalent.

 

[MarcB]

I spoke with BG a few years ago and they said they could make Ohlin's specific to the car but unfortunately they also added it would be at a very very high cost.

Sachs sold new roughly for £1200 per damper so you could only imagine what a one off bespoke Ohlins damper would cost to build from scratch that's specific to Mk2 Clio with 60mm Hub spacing.

Only good thing about this is servicing would be good as parts would be readily available

For me the only other dampers I would consider are -

Specific Ohlins or Specific AST's

 

[Big Dave]

I know that Ohlins are good to deal with, but ive heard that AST can be hard work. Although that was a few years ago, things might have improved since then......

 

[MarcB]

I know that Ohlins are good to deal with, but ive heard that AST can be hard work. Although that was a few years ago, things might have improved since then......

Ohlins make some amazing stuff.
Once again you pay for what you get and im sure with Ohlins there would be good service centres and BG are once again the UKs number one for Ohlins.

Think the big and when I say big I mean "Very Expensive" part would be getting these made from scratch and someone willing to pay for the cost of doing this as it would not be cheap and once made even buying a pair would still be expensive.

Like you say AST have given people issues and headaches but not sure if that's down to the Uk suppliers or AST themselves.

 

[frayz]

I had a set of custom AST5100s built with Road damping in mind. Their usual track rates are around 90n/90n or 90n/110n. Mine were valved and sprung to 70n/40n.
This is still quite abit firmer than the OEM Trophy damping, but absolutely nothing to say you couldn’t have a set built with totally OEM equivalent spring rates. Obviously your rear spring rate wouldn’t be OEM as it’s a coilover as opposed to a damper/spring perch. So obviously the length of the moment of force has changed.

I found AST perfect to deal with and my dampers were built and delivered within a few weeks. The 5100s are a single way damper but would give you as much/more control than you have with an OEM pinned/de pinned Sachs.

So you would gain ride height adjustability and a fully tailored bespoke package that is fully serviceable for around £2k.

 

[hoolio]

For a while I followed the development of the RSC range due to a connection to the Renault 5 scene. Looks good but with no UK outlet would be a pita for servicing.

 

[hoolio]

Coilover for my car - RS Center

www.rscenter.ch

 

[hoolio]

That’s annoying, that should be a link to the Clio2 ph3 version.

 

[glenn]

I'm no suspension guru but in the bike world ohlins are phenomenal so would love to see how much a set of fronts to replace the sachs would cost

 

[MarcB]

I'm no suspension guru but in the bike world ohlins are phenomenal so would love to see how much a set of fronts to replace the sachs would cost

I agree but if you have 10mins give BG a e-mail or call and wait for the eye watering response & that's if its a job they want to do.

 

[frayz]

Ohlins, Reiger, EXE-TC, Nitron, Tractive, JRZ, KW, DMS, AST/Moton etc. None of them matter unless they’re valved and sprung correctly to suit the needs of the purpose the car is being used for. All of which will be a compromise of some form.

I think of anyone is genuinely serious in a high end setup to replace the outdated Sachs. I’d suggest talking to Chris at Centre Gravity to discuss spring rates and options. However this would be unlikely to be a bullseye on the first attempt. It may take a number of spring/valving updates and significant cost to achieve it. Arguably significantly more than the cost of the car.

I think if I were you guys I’d be talking to AST and having a set of either 5100 or 5200 built. AST/Cooksport is run by Josh Cook who has a lot of experience racing in the Clio Cup and BTCC. They seemed very knowledgable on the Clio platform for achieving what I was after. Arguably for optimum road, I would go slightly softer still, but seeing as I wanted to have a road setup that would work on track, im happy enough with what I have vs the cost spent.

 

[glenn]

I would be happy with something that could replicate the feel of the the sachs. I think that's why we love these cars but with a bit more adjustment and a cheaper rebuild cost thrown in would be perfect. I have noticed that all aftermarket stuff has a spring the same diameter all the way down would this make a difference to the feel over standard?

 

[frayz]

I would be happy with something that could replicate the feel of the the sachs. I think that's why we love these cars but with a bit more adjustment and a cheaper rebuild cost thrown in would be perfect. I have noticed that all aftermarket stuff has a spring the same diameter all the way down would this make a difference to the feel over standard?

Correct, most coilover units use a 2.25” spring but are available in linear and progressive rates. Linear is arguably more common though. I’m not 100% but I’m pretty sure the OEM spring will be a progressive wind.
With that said, yes I think you would notice a slight difference but I think the difference of having a better damper would be more noticeable than the transition from progressive to linear spring rates.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think achieving better than Sachs performance is any kind of holy grail or biblical pot of gold. You would just have the stock springs and dampers dyno tested and have a suitably high quality set of dampers built similar.
The fact you would have more adjustment on a new damper would allow you fine tuning not present on the standard Sachs item.

 

[MarcB]

Thing about using BG for the ohlins is BG has the correct and exact spec's of the Sachs dampers.

With having the Sachs specs & correct information im sure they could knock up a set that is near on exact to the Sachs.


AST for me had been a nightmare when trying to get bearings for my AST Top mounts. Prob the worst customer experience I have had in terms of no one getting back to me but on saying that it might have changed.

 

[frayz]

Thing about using BG for the ohlins is BG has the correct and exact spec's of the Sachs dampers.

With having the Sachs specs & correct information im sure they could knock up a set that is near on exact to the Sachs.


AST for me had been a nightmare when trying to get bearings for my AST Top mounts. Prob the worst customer experience I have had in terms of no one getting back to me but on saying that it might have changed.

I know there were a number of problems years ago when it was run by Curtis etc, but I do think things have changed there now Marc since he’s no longer there. Worth asking BG what they would do in some Ohlins. You’d want something further up the scale than just their road/track DFVs I assume?

 

[Gambit]

Someone get a price on Ohlins for a Clio Trophy. I think 2-3k is reasonable. Anything between 3-5k i'd think twice about. For that money AST's valved to suit would be my next best bet.

 

[Lankyarcher]

I spoke to Nitron about this the other day, and BG.
BG said just over £3k for custom Ohlins… which having bought them for an OEM, is a very good price…
Nitron already do a kit for the 197, they said they would be interested in making some for the Trophy, I said if they cracked it, they could have a large market potentially!
they were talking £2-2.5k
I’ve had a drive in a Yaris GR with Nitron dampers, they are fantastic!

 

[ldubl]

Bilstein B14s (circa £800) get excellent reviews from non Trophy owners and one post on cliosport.net was from a Trophy owner who said they preferred their Trophy on the B14s to the Sachs, esp on track & some say the B14s are a little soft at the rear for track.

Those doing more track days suggest BC coilovers (circa £1k) as they have damper firmness adjustment so can firm up when on track, or ASTs for twice the price.

Intruiging options above. Quantum are another UK high end suspension manufacturer; I was quoted circa £2-2.5k for a set for my DC2 after a poor experience with Meister R GT1s about five years ago.

The Nitrons would be amazing and as @Lankeyarcher says, they already do a kit for the mk3 clios, so this may be the best option, as they have demonstrated an interest in catering for us.

Considering the value of Sachs now, their fragility and dwindling repair parts, these or the Ohlins are very tempting! I wonder if BG could offer a price similar to the Nitrons if sufficient denand? Ohlins may be more comfortable as a daily with their DFV valve?

 

[ldubl]

On my 182 (that has Trophy seats from new!) I have new Cup shocks with H&R springs. There is a bit to much dive, so I'm looking to upgrade the suspension. Having had two Trophys, I considered putting Trophy Sachs on, but for half the price of a second hand set, I'm going to try B14s next!

If there was a Trophy equivalent suspension (especially one that may have improved longevity/reliability or even a warranty!) then myself and other non Trophy 182 owners (with the 60mm Cup suspension spacing shared with the Trophy) may be interested in these options too, increasing potential market size.