Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Location
Sheffield
Hoping for some decision making replies here :wink:

After doing bedford on monday, i need to improve the brakes, They're good, but not good enough, they are what was on the car when i bought it.

I'm not looking for disc recomendations as such as i have a set of brembo max's sat in the garage, but what i'm after is people's experiences of brake pads (good or bad)

I've tried a search but most threads seem to be from 2 years ago with not too much information in them, they're more about what people are just about too fit, so 2 years on i'm guessing you guy's have done the testing for me :D

To keep this thread 100% factually correct, i'd rather no one post's with story's if there not 1st hand, chinese whispers and all that :wink: (my mate had ebc wonderstuff on his and when braking you could see the clock going backwards)

Current set up for the front is grooved discs and yellow stuff pads, on the road they're more than ample but at Bedford with several braking points in quick succession from 100mph+ down to 40 or 80mph+ down to 30 etc the current set up seemed to be lacking a little, it wasn't helped by the tyres (r888's) over heating after 2 or 3 laps.

The tyres could have been helped by a different approach to the track, but seeing as there is loads of run off and pretty much nothing to hit, you do tend to push the limits of the car.

At the minute i'm waying up the options for pads, either Carbon Lorraines, pf97's or rs4-2's or if anyone knows of a better pad let me know.

This threads going on and on #-o

I'd also be interested to hear the brake dust horror stories, but please bear in mind this car is only a track car, so it's driven to the track, gently driven round all day :^o and then driven home, no show 'n' shine etc
But while we're on the subject cleaning, it's not one of my hobbies, it's something i do with a bucket, sponge and hose pipe after every trackday (technially everytime i drive it)
I don't want to be scrubbing brake dust off the car with specialised cleansing products unless i really have too, or is it a case of if you wash the car within a day or two of residue dust that it simply wipes off?

Sorry for the long and dull post, that won't really be of any interest to the majority, but i need to get the best out of what's available without resorting too engine mods (can be an expensive past time on N/A cars)

I'm on track next Wednesday at Renaultsports Brands Hatch day, that will be on the current set up but with new fluid and braided hoses.
After that i've got 13 days until the next outing (9th June Donington evening) to make any changes if required, Then 5 days after Donington i'm doing the FCS Rockingham trackday and then 9 days after that i'm at Cadwell for an evening session followed by a 10 day rest before visiting Cadwell again for a full day. After these i've got 5 weeks to make any more improvments, so the brake pads will probably make a show somewhere in the above trackdays, it doesn't allow much time for testing them myself, so i'm putting my life in your recommendations [-o< [-o<

Cheers
Chris
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
635
Reaction score
2
Location
Devon
My front running Evo & Subaru colleagues all run CarboTech pads on the hills.

I tried Pagid RS15 which worked very well, but suffer from dust build up on the disc causing judder - you would need drilled or slotted discs to get the best out of them.

The quickest Trophy I have ever seen was on DS2500.
 

Cue

Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
6,607
Reaction score
163
Location
Republico Yorkshire
Trophy No.
274
my personal experience is limited to ds2500, mintex extremes, rs4-2's and oem pads. the best of these is/was the pagids rs4-2's - they've done a few tracks days and haven't missed a beat. still going strong also.

I've seen others running carbon lorraines and they seem more track orientated, a lot more aggressive than the pagids so disk wear is increased, plus they make a mess of the rims, but regular cleaning should minimise this.

the only thing i would worry about is heat, certainly get some increased airflow to the brakes as cooling them on the clio hasn't been exactly well designed. fog light removal is the normal solution to that.

Have you thought of upgrading to AP 4 pots? pricey but beats anything the after-market pads can muster.
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Location
Sheffield
Cheers Cue, The fog lights have gone and in there place is a set of 100mm ducts (no arch liners) not the 75/80mm most people use.
4 pots were a possibilty, but after hearing very good things about the stopping performance of the pf97's and carbon lorrianes with oem calipers i decided it may be best to go down this route 1st.

I'll have look for the spec on the rs-15's George, I've heard the rs-14's are really good too, looks like i need to do a bit more digging :wink:

Cheers
Chris
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,167
Reaction score
728
Location
OXFORD
Trophy No.
307
Edit; ok it was clearly a fecking stupid idea.

Anyway, I doubt that just washing alone will be enough to protect the rims without some kind of sealant on them which you top up on a fairly regular basis. Also protecting the paintwork wouldn't hurt either.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Chris,

I currently use Ferrodo DS2500s with Brembo HC disks, braided lines and racing fluid and and when I did Rockingham last October they performed very well. Nice firm pedal, no fade and happily endured a 20-25 min session on track - although the disks were glowing by the end of that ;-)

I'm at Brands on Wednesday too so I'll maybe see you there and ask how the brakes are doing...just don't out brake yourself following me into Druids ;-)

Anyone else going to the Renaultsport day?

Simon
No. 317
PS Regards the overheating tyres - have you tried experimenting with tyre pressures?
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
635
Reaction score
2
Location
Devon
BTW re tyres - can you tell if the temperature is evenly spread across the tyre; some DC5's run massive camber to get an even spread across the tyre (up to 7 degrees - must admit I am not a fan of such extremes) - certainly the Clio racers run over 3.5, and that is with very very stiff springs. Have you checked with Toyo for recommended pressures - they have a tech enquiry e-mail address.
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Location
Sheffield
To be honest i didn't play with any settings at all. I think the overheating was due to the driving style rather than anything else, a couple of times i used the steering to slow the car down [-X The heat from severe understeer can't have helped at all. Then the amount of wheel spin on exiting the corners, mostly down to me. Normally i'm more conservative with the tyres, but for some reason on Monday i just seemed to have a really heavy right foot :twisted:

Good point about calling toyo, i used to contact there motorsport guy's when i was running the lighter cars, pretty useful point of call for a starting point. It was from speaking with these guy's several years ago i found that most cars should run at least 3 degrees of negative camber to get the most from the tyres.

New fluid and braided hoses are going in/on before Brands on wednesday, so i'll see if that improves things a little. I have a feeling the current fluid could be the original stuff.

Chris
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
526
Reaction score
19
Location
N. Wales
I would steer clear of he DS2500 for a track car thats going to be used as you intend Chris tbh (I can hear all the booing lol) There fine for fast road and ocassional trackdays.

Had them on the car, fine when new but can't cope with a lot of heat, the set I just took off were destroyed (crumbling and missing chunks - had done 4 trackdays on them thought so I might be asking to much from them but mate had similar issues with them.

Just fitted Pagid RS4-2's, ready for next months trackday, so can't really comment on how good or bad :wink: they are when used on track.

Have you had a read of http://www.readyforthetrack.co.uk/ ?
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
668
Reaction score
0
Location
Stratford on Avon
It could well be just the fluid like you said (soft pedal). I think sorting that would be a big improvement for brands.
 

kam

Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
65
Reaction score
0
Location
Solihull - West Midlands
I'm running Pagid Blues (RS4-2) which came on the car when I bought it. I know the previous owner had used the car at Snetterton and the Ring and since then I have done Oulton and Silverstone.

The brakes have been faultless with numoerous high speed stops. Only quibble is you do get some brake judder after 6-7 laps but it doesn't affect the performance in any way. You do get some brake dust build up but because the wheels are anthracite it's hardly noticeable. My Clio also has the Brembo discs but I'm not sure if it's uprated fluid. I'll be changing the fluid at the next service to SRF.

I'm off to the ring next week so will see how the brakes hold up but they look like they have loads of life left in them.

I had Pagid Yellows on my old e39 M5 and considering it was an 1800kg car they did a great job on standard discs and calipers. I had no brake fade at Bedford with numerous stops from 130 plus. The only problem with the yellows is noise and brake dust. The yellow is a trackday only pad.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
270
Reaction score
1
Location
Hemel Hempstead
Ok. I am currently running Brembo Maxcarb discs, braided hoses, DOT 5.1 fluid and Pagid RS 4-2s. I do intend to track the car at some point in the future, but i want to get it perfect first (long story inolving lotus's). So my car is road only at the moment. However, My mileage is low and I want the car to be a weapon. Brakes are great for roads. If you know the now defunct M10 (R.I.P.) You'll know exactly what I mean :twisted: . I've done 120 - 40 on there no probs. Ok, its not repeatedly on track. I'd sort out the tyres imho. R888's should not overheat that quickly, even with the weight of the car. You will need to reduce the pressures after 15 mins of track time, as the heat raises the pressures. If your wheelspinning them, it's no wonder. I'd also recommend you learn good braking technique. Look up 1st lotus driver training, he's one of the best! If discs are getting hot, 4pots or more extreme pads will make this worse. As it is track only, I would say go with the most extreme pads, and be prepared to use 3 brembo discs to one set of pads. They are only cheap anyway. Wash your wheels when they are off the car after each trackday, no probs. Or after your wheels look tatty in a few years, buy a new set. They are only 400ish. I would say RS14, carbon Lorraine or PF(in increasing agressiveness). Good luck and let me know what you decide. =D>
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Location
Buckinghamshire
I have brembo max discs and after a short period with mintex pads (poor cold performance) i have been using carbon lorraine pads for the last 2 years. I also have toyo r888s and have done 6 track days running for at least 30 mins without a break and we ran for 45 mins non stop at snetterton without a hint of fade, the carbon lorraine braking performance is quite incredible, fade free and in terms of stopping power will beat many supposedly superior cars. During a tuition session with Stephan Hogdetts at Silverstone he spontaneously commented on the braking performance asking what modifications had been done.

In terms of wear, while the carbon lorraines stop brilliantly, they dont last too long, I have had 3 sets of front pads over the 6 track days and about 6000 road miles - but I dont take chances so change them early before trackdays. On the plus side the discs are still fine.

Mess, yes they are fairly messy and my front wheels need a lot of work as I dont clean them often enough.

Other downsides, they can be very noisy in terms of squealing under normal braking (pedestrians covering their ears and giving me evils) but this has only happened with one set.

With regard to the tyres, the recommended operating temperature for the toyos is actually quite high - 70-80 C as I remember and i have never actually managed to get them to run above about 50 C at any track so far including Thruxton so the temp should not be a problem unless you are spinning the wheels too much out of the slow corners which is easy to do - but slower....

Overall, I would consider the pads to be the best mod I have on the car - and I have the Morego 202 conversion - remap, cams, induction (which definitely adds power and torque), Milltek exhaust, sport cat and 17 inch turinis with R888s. I would totally recommend the carbon lorraine pads.

I hope this is helpful.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
48
Reaction score
0
I have tried OE pads, and DS Performance pads on the Clio and Pagid RS4-2's on the Elise.

The OE pads have good initial bite and plenty of stopping power for the first few laps of a circuit. They are excellent for road use and suitable for some light track work, but fade becomes an issue if you're on track for more than 10 minutes at a time.

The DS Performance pads were pretty terrible for normal use - very little bite and lots of grinding and squeaking. Once up to temperature on track they are ok, but not as good as the OE pads.

My brother uses Pagid Blues on his Elise and they are excellent; Solid, consistant pedal feel, plenty of bite and good fade resistence.

I have just ordered some carbon lorraines for the Trophy, will let you know how they compare, although from the sounds of it, I have a feeling they'll be pretty good!

480: you mention you're on R888's, what size are you using? How much faster are you around the track?
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
Location
Sheffield
MadUsa1 said:
480: you mention you're on R888's, what size are you using? How much faster are you around the track?

If you'd asked me 2 hours ago, i'd have said they make you around 2 seconds a lap faster than Pe2's. But having just watched my laps back from Brands Hatch today the answer is 0 seconds :eek:
The fastest laps of the day on each tyre were all within 4 hundreds of a second.

Tbh though, i only really seem to get the boot down when there is something catch, (that's fast too) when i'm just lapping and passing slower cars i just settle in to a rountine and most laps (with the exception of traffic) are generally a couple of seconds slower.

Good news though, the brakes were fine, the new fluid and braided hoses seem to have cured the braking concerns i had from Bedford :D

Roll on Donington 9th June (evening track) :)
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
1,407
Reaction score
0
Location
Loughborough but mainly on trackdays!
Standard is pap unless for poping to the shops.
Ds 2500 & brembo HC'c & good fliud are fantastic fast road but as mentioned not the best on track.
Amm's trophy with the PF97's had the best stopping power but traded off against paint damage etc.
The R888's go off very quick indeed if over inflated due to heat, i used to run 24F 28/30R hot. Even so still got uneven wear like meat from tyre worn out 1/3 way in. Told this was due to construction of the toyo :eek:
 

Cue

Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
6,607
Reaction score
163
Location
Republico Yorkshire
Trophy No.
274
around cadwell, which i've done on separate days using pe2's and r888's i knocked 4 seconds a lap off, albeit they temp on the day, knowing the circuit etc would have had an effect
 
Top