The king is dead long live the king

mr StinKa gob · Nov 28, 2005

Looks like the Trophy reign as 'king' of the modern hatches is going to be pretty short.

New Focus St looks like a bit of a beast.

And at 17.5k you cant really give the old arguement of it being aimed at a different market. Its only 2.5k more expensive, and the same sort of price as the ctr.

Maverick · Nov 28, 2005

I really like the sound of it - can't wait to get a test drive in one.

Did you see it on Top Gear? Cocking an inside wheel... on a soaking wet track?!! :shock:

It's in a different class to the Clio - Clio is Supermini, Focus is Small Family.

But both are Hot Hatchbacks, and there will undoubtedly be comparisons. Can't wait.

Nik · Nov 28, 2005

Yep, looks very good. I've never really liked modern Fords for some reason, but wouldn't say no to one of these.

Not in the same class as a Clio though, so cant really be compared. It is excellent value for money though at 17.5k.

mr StinKa gob · Nov 28, 2005

LOL, its the same class. You can split hairs, but a hatch back is a hatch back. Same size, same price.

I noticed an argument on cliosport about the meganee 225 v the clio 172. I drove a meganee 225 the other day and its serisously quicker than any clio sport ive been in.

The Focus ST looks to be even quicker. I cant wait to test one either. Plus he turb means cheap tuning to stupid speeds.

The new clio will need 220 bhp to be able to keep up, which means they have to fit the megane lump in it.

Maverick · Nov 28, 2005

King Stromba said:
LOL, its the same class. You can split hairs, but a hatch back is a hatch back. Same size, same price.

I noticed an argument on cliosport about the meganee 225 v the clio 172. I drove a meganee 225 the other day and its serisously quicker than any clio sport ive been in.

The Focus ST looks to be even quicker. I cant wait to test one either. Plus he turb means cheap tuning to stupid speeds.

The new clio will need 220 bhp to be able to keep up, which means they have to fit the megane lump in it.

Same size? :!: :?:
:? lol

The Meg225 is a nice confortable and fast cruiser. But the Clio is seemingly faster round a track.

My mates Meg 225 Cup is noticeably quicker than my 172 in any gear above 80 ish mph.

hyb · Nov 28, 2005

v.nice car, you can't compare it against the trophy though. It's rivals are the golf gti, type-r, meg 225 etc. If you think otherwise you need your eyes tested

mr StinKa gob · Nov 28, 2005

LOL @ how f4r owners never play with faster cars.

'yeah our rivals are the robin reliant, 1960's 1 litre mini and milk floats' :roll:

A Porshe boxster is a rival to the S2000. Price doesnt come into it. Car type and target market are the real factors involved. You dont hear S2000 owners moaning about how the Porsche costs more so its in a different class.

The ST is aimed at exactly the people who would buy a trophy, its about the same price, so its a rival. A ST isnt a family car, a mondeo is a family car. The focus is a small hatch back the same as a clio. Its just better built so it costs more.

Tomx · Nov 28, 2005

Lets see what they think to it on 5th Gear tonight. Personally I don't like the look of it.

mr StinKa gob · Nov 28, 2005

Compared to the Clio Williams, Delta integrale and golf gti (original) i think modern cars all look rubbish.

But then i like angular cars. Will be interesting to see what Jason 'no personality how did i get a job on television' Plato thinks about the ST.

LOL @ him thinking he was better than a fighter pilot. 'Yeah sure Jason, you could really fly a fighter plane, pitty your ego wouldnt ft in the cockpit'

strike · Nov 28, 2005

Don't get me started on 5th gear. I think the show last week reached an all time low...

As far as looks, I prefer modern cars. I much prefer the new Golf to the original, and the way the Trophy looks compared to the Williams.

As for the ST. I am not sure. Wasn't it still slower than the Clio Cup? The Cup was in the rain wasn't it???

Day · Nov 28, 2005

I'd rather spend 17.5 on a used Focus RS thanks.

Maverick · Nov 28, 2005

King Stromba said:
A ST isnt a family car, a mondeo is a family car. The focus is a small hatch back the same as a clio. Its just better built so it costs more.

How about... no, no and no again.

The fiesta ST is in the same class as the Clio. As is the 206 Gti, the Mini Cooper S - all superminis.

The reason the Clio will be compared to the Focus (golf, leon etc)is that they are both hot hatch backs, albeit from out of different classes, but have similar performance. Bit like comparing different weight boxers - some of the lighter guys can punch above thier weight.

And all from someone who professes to know everything about car markets. :roll:

mr StinKa gob · Nov 28, 2005

LOL @ at the defensive people. Face it the St is a faster better car than the rs range.

Plus it wont fall apart as soon as you look at it.

Maverick · Nov 28, 2005

ST is a better car in all departments as far as can see. But it's still in a different class.

Jordan · Nov 28, 2005

the trophy's reign as 'king' of the hot hatches will remain - the clio cup was faster than the ST round the top gear track, and the trophy will be faster still.

the focus is more powerful, but its also heavier which compromises the handling.

222bhp is a lot for a hatchback, but there's not much point in a front wheel drive car, because it just translates into increased torque steer and annoying understeer.

the ST is a good mixture of comfort and performance, but if you want the superior drivers car save yourself 4k and get a trophy.

long live the trophy!

Tomx · Nov 28, 2005

Perfomance wise theres nothing in it unless you want to drive at silly speeds over 100. As said above the 182 can punch above its class but it should be compared to the ST Fiesta as they are similar sized cars. If I was buying a car in that class I would go for the Megane Cup, looks so much nicer than the Focus - who cares about reliability.

Portland · Nov 28, 2005

The ST is pitched against the Golf GTI, Astra VXR etc, not Cupras and Clios. Different sort of beast really. Does like quite entertaining and I considered one, but having driven the Focus RS and the Fiesta ST, I thought better of it. Good price point though, going to steal a few sales from the tail happy VXR which is just a bit too silly. Wait till people start swapping intercoolers and pumping the boost up on the ST, there'll be a few wrapped round trees in no time!

In base spec I think the Trophy would edge the ST round the twisties, but would get caned on the flat. The ST will be more expensive to buy and run, but is bigger. Again, it's horses for courses. As the back seats for us are basically a way of keeping the shopping from wedging under the brake pedal, we don't need an Astra/Focus sized car, so I bought 265/500. If we'd been after a bigger car, I'd have prolly looked very closely at the Meggy Trophy, but I think the 225 cup might not be quite up to it...

BTW, if you want to scare the cr@p out of a salesperson, book a test drive in the VXR and see how badly out of shape you can get it without actually crashing

stephenhunter · Nov 28, 2005

You will never beat a naturally aspirated engine for pure driving enjoyment. This is where the Trophy wins! When on the limit you can balance the car on the throttle, try that in turbo ST Focus, VXR etc these cars are for people who cannot drive on the limit. BMW and Honda are correct, no turbos.
My Trophy will outshine them all for pure driving ability.

OliS · Nov 29, 2005

The Focus ST surely is a rival for the Megane Trophy and not the Clio Trophy, compared on size and price. The Fiesta ST is the Clio's direct competitor from Ford and it is way short of the Clio's standard

ChrisB · Nov 30, 2005

I know what people mean about different sizes, but they are all still hot hatches. Before i got the Trophy, I was thinking of getting another Focus RS. I was after a "good" fwd car to do a few trips to the Ring in, so I wasn't picking a hot hatch on size, so RS and Trophy were natural competitors.

I still can't decide which is the better car, RS or Trophy, for me. The RS was definitely faster to accelerate, but the Trophy is much easier to drive fast on a circuit - better positioned pedals, no turbo lag, much less noticeable torque steer, more accurate gearchange (though nothing special!).

Anyway, about the ST. Reviews seem to mention the heavy engine and the understeer. The brake discs look comedy small. If you opt for the cheapest version, does the lack of stability control mean the torque steer is more obvious, or are the two not connected ?