RS2 news

[PAGANI]

does anyone have any more news on the JMS RS2, i have one fitted, are people still having problems mine's only putting out 180bhp instead off the 190ish promised, spoke to an rs tuner and he said he could have got 180 with a remap which is exactly what he did with his brothers car and it was standard. I have a decat rs192 fitted as well. Any ideas? and one off the reasons i bought it was to run a set off cams and apparently it wont run with cams, does anybody know why. You get good low down torque with the rs2 and a set of mild cams would give a bit more power without changing the way it drives would have been ideal. Looks like i would have been better with throttle bodies. What sort of power and torque can you get from them and at what rpm.
Martin

 

[Carbon Chaos]

No idea about the JMS RS2 just that people seem to be taking them off ,as for throttle bodies K-tec are claiming a 30bhp raise and 15lbs torque gain (quote for website).

 

[Will#I#Ams]

iv just had a look at their website. well stones. it seems the torque seems to peak at about 3.5k revs then drops off. iv sent stone an email asking what this is all about, as for my money a grand would warrant at least an overall gain rather than just lowering the peak torque figure by a a couple thou revs. looking at the design, its just an itb manifold with a carbon airbox running std throttle body. im no expert in this kind of thing but it looks like a massive con. yes sure the torqu figures do drop to a decent rpm figure, but the overall outlook looks like money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[PAGANI]

My cars peak torque is now at about 155ftlb 2600rpm and stays pretty flat all the way to 6000rpm and never drops below about 140 then it tails of gradually to 7500rpm where it produces 125. My biggest gripe is the power before the remap 172.9 with decat and Rs2 and then 180.8 after remap, Tom did say the product was not about ultimate top end power, 190 would have been nice though. The remap was done by rs tuner in Leeds he only did four runs and having never had a remap done on a car don't know if this is normal. was wondering if there was any way of improving the top end power as apparently they got 190 out of the test car, i have been told that there can be a big difference in power in standard form after all its french not japanese. The flat torque curve does make it great for everyday driving and the sound it makes is pretty sweet as well. Would welcome any suggestions, would itb's fit keeping the airbox?

 

[Sir_Dave]

looking at the design, its just an itb manifold with a carbon airbox running std throttle body. im no expert in this kind of thing but it looks like a massive con.

Perhaps if you are no expert, you should avoid commenting? The RS2 is essentially a CSL airbox for the clio, cant remember anyone moaning when BMW designed that ...

This is the latest RS2 graph from an otherwise standard Trophy that was done the other day:


Perhaps it would be worthwhile you contacting Michael Woodford Motorsport (who mapped the one above) & asking them to do another map on it? I assume all other variables on your Trophy are fine, ie cam timing/compression, etc?

 

[Will#I#Ams]

looks more like a formula reno inlet to me tbh. just with shorter inlets with the plenum on the end rather than up top.....but hey.

im surprised to see a new reno tuner can get more power out of them than the reno tuners that have been working on these cars for years tho. even better than the designers themselves..impressive???

 

[Will#I#Ams]

btw. anyone know whos car this is??? could be anything tbh. doesnt seem to have been bandied about on the forums at all. and im sure anyone on there, or here would be more than happy with the results and would post.

 

[aucky]

The manifold was made by Jenvey, so top notch.
190bhp is not 'garunteed'. I made 183bhp.
Remember, a ''good'' 182 makes 175bhp standard but figures rage from 165-180bhp. Just luck of the draw really.

If you are chasing peak figures to quote at the pub, this isn't for you.
If you want 80% of the advantages of ITBs with 0% of the drawbacks then this is for you.

I suggest you read through the many threads on cliosport.net

 

[Will#I#Ams]

i have done mate. i know the torque spread is a fantastic improvement over std.

just wondering how tdf, ktec, rst, jms et al have not managed to get the same/better results. especially when so many of the companies mentioned are so highly thought of.

 

[Will#I#Ams]

Perhaps if you are no expert, you should avoid commenting? The RS2 is essentially a CSL airbox for the clio, cant remember anyone moaning when BMW designed that ...

This is the latest RS2 graph from an otherwise standard Trophy that was done the other day:


Perhaps it would be worthwhile you contacting Michael Woodford Motorsport (who mapped the one above) & asking them to do another map on it? I assume all other variables on your Trophy are fine, ie cam timing/compression, etc?

with this are you saying tdf etc are crap at mapping??? seeing as though they have been tuning these cars, with this mod for a while now and not got the same results??

im sure you arent. looking at your posts on cs etc. but it seems to be implying this.

 

[aucky]

Some clios make more than others. Its just the way it is.

If you want garuanteed 190+ you should've got ITBs and cams.

 

[Sir_Dave]

with this are you saying tdf etc are crap at mapping??? seeing as though they have been tuning these cars, with this mod for a while now and not got the same results??

im sure you arent. looking at your posts on cs etc. but it seems to be implying this.

TDF dont do the mapping on the RS2, it was RS Tuning when JMS originally created the RS2. So no, i am passing no comment on TDF. They are afterall, the CS trader of the moment, just like JMS in 2010/2011, NWP in 2009/2010 & AngelWorks/GDI/YozzaSport etc etc in the years previous.

Not that im old/cynical or anything.

Now the RS2 mapping is done by MWM in partnership with Stone Automotive (James bought the design rights for the RS2 off JMS).

Its horses for courses imho, i was tempted by ITB's at £2.5k, then fancied the RS2 at £1.5k, then realised that i was a mong for considering spending that much money to still have a relatively slow, but nice handling clio.

So i bought a 3 series with 343bhp instead.

 

[j333evo]

All manufufacturers homologate thier engines in a test cell. All cars fitted with that engine thereafter have to produce to within 90% of that figure to take into account manufacturing tolerances.

This is the same for French, German, Japanese cars et all.

Some manufacturers stretch this to the extreme, in fact BMW & Audi N/A engines are the biggest culprits of this do never expect any of the M or RS cars without forced induction to be anywhere near published power. Of course the more powerfull the engine the bigger the disparity it is.

Forced induction cars are a different breed & often make more as they are torque rated & the ECU euros out the torque requirement and produces this which if you know the relationship between torque & power is why they often make more.

 

[j333evo]

Of course that should read that the ECU WORKS out the required torque, not euro's blooming iPhone!

The 182PS that the Clio is rated it is roughly 179.5bhp therefore can produce 161.5bhp & still meet EEC regulations. There is no upper limit, so any car can produce more than published i.e. Abarth 500 rated 135PS normally make 145-150PS but torque is pretty much on the button at 160lb ft.

The above mentioned M3 @ 343PS if a good 'un will produce 320PS, but could be as low as 310ps and still satisfy the requirement.

 

[eddyg]

How do you know you are comparing like for like on your 180 hp? Compression can make a big difference especially with NA. Atmospheric conditions etc etc. At the end of the day do you like how it drives? Thats the important thing. The big thing i noticed with the RS2 is bags of extra low down torque. Average torque across the rev range with produce better acceleration rather than a quick peak of torque for a band of 100 rpm. And when was the last time you noticed the difference of that 10bhp? I have driven with, as has dave, Nick who used to have an RS2 and when we were both on it there was not that much in it at all, and my T 'only' has 170 bhp which means nothing as it is back calculated anyways, i have 140bhp at the wheels.

That form of intake plenum is a well know design... go look at the inlet on one bank of cylinders on an F430 you will see very similar shape. As Dave said look at an M3 inlet. It is not a just a random shaped inlet plucked out the air. Now when renault design their engines they have a lot more considerations to think about than just all out power. Emissions is a massive one. NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) and probably the biggest one of the lot COST! When you are producing a car every minute its probably the biggest factor so a fancy inlet that is hard to produce, doesn't package as well, think of crash test etc (fuel rail guard) there are compromises. And yes tolerance. Do you know how much it costs to check every piston and every block are correct to the closest micron for that perfect clearance for maximum power, and yet still sell a car for 15,000 pounds, and recover development costs, pay dealers, suppliers etc etc.
The design of the RS2 is good for 190 bhp as has been shown on a specific engine. You deviate away from that exact engine and you can't expect the same results. However do you prefer driving your car now? Thats the question you have to answer.

 

[aucky]

do you prefer driving your car now? Thats the question you have to answer.

Precisely.

My peak figure of 'only' 183bhp doesn't even begin to tell the whole story of how it drives.

I stretched 2nd and 3rd gear and my mate said it felt a fair bit quicker than his v6.

 

[DaddyMac]

btw. anyone know whos car this is??? could be anything tbh. doesnt seem to have been bandied about on the forums at all. and im sure anyone on there, or here would be more than happy with the results and would post.

Yup it's mine!

Only just got it back on Friday but very impressed with the way it's running. I've been waiting since last April to have the mapping done and it's been a pretty unpleasant 9/10 months of driving. Pre RS2 map was 183bhp/139ft (I already had the JMS stage 1 remap and scorpion decat exhaust so not quite standard as Sir_Dave says) and post map as you can already see, 190.1bhp/151ft. Can post all the dyno results if I get a chance in the next day or two........

 

[PAGANI]

It sounds like i will get mine remaped again as i am impressed by the torque, i got mine done at RS tuner in Leeds, does anybody think getting MWM to do it is worth it, wouldn't mind the extra 10bhp and do you think it would be a better bet as i used the the guys involved with the group buy and he only spent 20mins and four runs which seems as of he couldn't be bothered as he was slagging off JMS. All in all i am happy with the unit. Whats MWM's contact number.
Thanks
Martin

 

[hoolio]

http://www.michaelwoodfordmotorsport.com/cms/index.php/contact-us-page

 

[PAGANI]

Cheers