If you set them half/full turn back from min this makes them harder ? I have mine on the minimum setting (as far away from hard as possible) :?:BenG said:
Trophy #40 Crash
- Thread starter 480bhp.com
- Start date
BenG
ClioTrophy Moderator
Did you get the confusing dial with yours too, the one with 'firm' on it ? It only adjusts the rebound so I dont know why it says firm. I cant remember which way is +/- rebound damping off the top of my head, but the dial makes no sense !
At first I thought the Koni's adjusted bump because of the stupid dial, George K pointed me in the right direction.
At first I thought the Koni's adjusted bump because of the stupid dial, George K pointed me in the right direction.
BenG said:
Yep ! I think Firm is anti clockwise or clockwise :?
BenG
ClioTrophy Moderator
Ive just had a look...
Clockwise = - rebound damping (fast rebound)
Anti-clockwise = + rebound damping (slow rebound)
The dial says anti-clockwise for Firm. So it does make sense... Firm means increased damping regardless of whether it is bump or rebound.
Honestly :roll: ! My brain cells are fully damped...
Clockwise = - rebound damping (fast rebound)
Anti-clockwise = + rebound damping (slow rebound)
The dial says anti-clockwise for Firm. So it does make sense... Firm means increased damping regardless of whether it is bump or rebound.
Honestly :roll: ! My brain cells are fully damped...
- Thread starter
- #65
Can't wait too get my dampers now :wink:
Anyway back on subject, the final spec of the car is changing daily, and will take till early next year at a guess to complete, despite running at plenty of trackdays this year. But the spec so far is looking like:
Full Fia International Cage
Full bare shell respray inside and out in white
Suspension as listed previously
Complete rewire, ditching all the renault loom
Emerald ecu
Cable throttle body/pedal
amongst other things :wink:
I'll get some pictures up when the cars back on it's wheels, but it'll look poor in comparison to the picture i've now in my head of what it will look like when it's completely finished
Anyway back on subject, the final spec of the car is changing daily, and will take till early next year at a guess to complete, despite running at plenty of trackdays this year. But the spec so far is looking like:
Full Fia International Cage
Full bare shell respray inside and out in white
Suspension as listed previously
Complete rewire, ditching all the renault loom
Emerald ecu
Cable throttle body/pedal
amongst other things :wink:
I'll get some pictures up when the cars back on it's wheels, but it'll look poor in comparison to the picture i've now in my head of what it will look like when it's completely finished
I had my revalved Koni's fully firm (720 degrees) and the fronts around 33 clicks from soft on track. Still need to play with the settings. On the road I still wouldn't go to fully soft at the rear unless I take rear passengers. I guess I'd rather put up with the stiff ride than the slacker handling. Fronts around mid 20's and rears around 360 to 540 degrees from soft (with MF springs).
- Thread starter
- #67
Just heard back from Ben @ BG, my dampers have now been refurb'd and are being despatched today. They were in good working condition and didn't need rebuilding at this moment, but i requested that they were done anyway along with being depinned. Just for future reference the resevior was about 5mm from the mount on each damper before i sent them off.
Chris
Chris
- Thread starter
- #68
The Springs turned up today (still waiting for Dampers) and having cleaned/sprayed up the front dampers when they were returned from BG the cars now back on it's wheels
The front looks lower but the rear doesn't, The vibratechnic mounts have eliminated the movement the engine was experiencing when rocked by hand.
So it's just off too Mansfield on Monday afternoon to get the geom reset to my liking :wink:
Bedford a week on monday, so i'll see if the changes have made much difference, hopefully the rear dampers will have arrived by then too.
changes since the last trackday (Donington 1st March 2009) have been:
Entire interior stripped inc dash
1 cobra pro evoultion seat fitted (no passenger seat)
refurb'd front dampers
Mark Fish springs front and rear
Vibratechnics upper engine and gearbox mounts
Polybushed dogbone
New power steering Pump
New power steering pressure hose
Cambelt and Aux belts replaced
Rear camber shims fitted
Front dampers slotted more, for increased camber (was 1:45' previously)
New steering wheel and boss
Still got a few more additons to add when i get the time, but they probably be after Brands Hatch on the 27th
Chris
The front looks lower but the rear doesn't, The vibratechnic mounts have eliminated the movement the engine was experiencing when rocked by hand.
So it's just off too Mansfield on Monday afternoon to get the geom reset to my liking :wink:
Bedford a week on monday, so i'll see if the changes have made much difference, hopefully the rear dampers will have arrived by then too.
changes since the last trackday (Donington 1st March 2009) have been:
Entire interior stripped inc dash
1 cobra pro evoultion seat fitted (no passenger seat)
refurb'd front dampers
Mark Fish springs front and rear
Vibratechnics upper engine and gearbox mounts
Polybushed dogbone
New power steering Pump
New power steering pressure hose
Cambelt and Aux belts replaced
Rear camber shims fitted
Front dampers slotted more, for increased camber (was 1:45' previously)
New steering wheel and boss
Still got a few more additons to add when i get the time, but they probably be after Brands Hatch on the 27th
Chris
- Thread starter
- #70
The garage is a bit full for any pictures to be taken in there and the drive's at an angle so i'm not so sure the pics would be worth looking at, maybe on monday when i take the car to be set up i'll get some :wink:
As for the set up i'm still changing things trackday to trackday, but the main changes are to the camber, the rear is now -2 degrees and if i've got enough clearance on the front it will be -2:30 there.
No rear toe changes to be made, although i'm sure i'd be quicker if i went for a touch of toe out, but then again if i had more confidence and braked later i'd also be quicker :wink:
Toe at the front, i'm not too sure about. It's something i need a more expert opinion on which way to progress if at all from the standard settings, camber is easy to see from pics but the same pics don't tell the toe story.
As it will be the 1st trackday with fully adjustable dampers front and rear i've also got those to play with too.
Hopefully after Bedford i'll have an idea of where they need to be, and with Brands Hatch (27th May) and a Donington Gp evening (9th June) by mid June i should be somewhere near.
Mark Fish did say though that he was willing too work with me for more track orientated springs, but one step at a time, so for the next 3 trackdays i'll be sticking with the Mark Fish road versions that he's been selling for a few years.
Chris
As for the set up i'm still changing things trackday to trackday, but the main changes are to the camber, the rear is now -2 degrees and if i've got enough clearance on the front it will be -2:30 there.
No rear toe changes to be made, although i'm sure i'd be quicker if i went for a touch of toe out, but then again if i had more confidence and braked later i'd also be quicker :wink:
Toe at the front, i'm not too sure about. It's something i need a more expert opinion on which way to progress if at all from the standard settings, camber is easy to see from pics but the same pics don't tell the toe story.
As it will be the 1st trackday with fully adjustable dampers front and rear i've also got those to play with too.
Hopefully after Bedford i'll have an idea of where they need to be, and with Brands Hatch (27th May) and a Donington Gp evening (9th June) by mid June i should be somewhere near.
Mark Fish did say though that he was willing too work with me for more track orientated springs, but one step at a time, so for the next 3 trackdays i'll be sticking with the Mark Fish road versions that he's been selling for a few years.
Chris
BenG
ClioTrophy Moderator
Sounds good Chris. Thats good that Mark Fish is willing to work with you for track orientated springs. I was under the impression the ones you have recently ordered were Track orientated, I didnt think you could run much stiffer springs with the Sachs dampers.
Looking forward to hearing how the more dramatic changes since last track day have transformed the car..
8)
Looking forward to hearing how the more dramatic changes since last track day have transformed the car..
8)
Hi Chris, having been away from the forum for a while I've just picked this thread up and read it with interest. One question, and forgive me if you have mentioned it already, I have been skim reading the text as there is now so much of it!
Now the shell is pretty much stripped and you are going to weld in the Custom Cage, are you going to seam weld the shell at the same time? Or do you feel the ridgity with the weld in cage will be what you are looking for? There is the factor of extra welding adding weight of course; although it is fairly minimal if you just seam the key areas around front and rear suspension, mounts, turrets etc. and the main chassis rails.
I think white with black Trophy stickers will look great too.
Cheers
Gordon.
Now the shell is pretty much stripped and you are going to weld in the Custom Cage, are you going to seam weld the shell at the same time? Or do you feel the ridgity with the weld in cage will be what you are looking for? There is the factor of extra welding adding weight of course; although it is fairly minimal if you just seam the key areas around front and rear suspension, mounts, turrets etc. and the main chassis rails.
I think white with black Trophy stickers will look great too.
Cheers
Gordon.
- Thread starter
- #73
Fair point about the seem welding Gordon, it was something i had considered but overall i don't feel there's going to be any advantages for what i use the car for.
It now seems i could be going for a bolt in cage, identical to the fia weld in one, it's something Mark Fish can supply and is the next one up from the safety devices 6 point cage that most people fit. If i go for the bolt in cage then i doubt i'll go too the lengths of having the car sprayed like originally planned. I suppose i'll have to wait and see what happens during the summer :wink:
Todays progress has been the removal of the air con rad and pipework, just the compressor to remove once the cup alternator and brackets arrive.
Running out of bits too remove now :twisted:
Chris
It now seems i could be going for a bolt in cage, identical to the fia weld in one, it's something Mark Fish can supply and is the next one up from the safety devices 6 point cage that most people fit. If i go for the bolt in cage then i doubt i'll go too the lengths of having the car sprayed like originally planned. I suppose i'll have to wait and see what happens during the summer :wink:
Todays progress has been the removal of the air con rad and pipework, just the compressor to remove once the cup alternator and brackets arrive.
Running out of bits too remove now :twisted:
Chris
- Thread starter
- #75
Hi Ben,
I've left it all at a friends garage (he's got 2 and 4 post ramps) but i did see a guy on cliosport had weighed the compressor and brackets and they came to 10kg's dead, and then the radiator, hoses and fluid etc weighed roughly 5kg's, so you could say roughly 15kg's all in.
Tbh, if your just after saving weight on a road car i'd leave it on, but for me i don't spend all my life behind the wheel of it, so for the time i do, i can manage without the luxuries most people take for granted.
Driving for a while with no radio or interior etc etc isn't for the faint hearted, i can't wait until a week on wednesday when i do brands hatch, the best part of 3-4 hours listening to the associated noises that comes from completely stripping a car
For me removing the aircon is beneficial for more reasons
1, less weight forward of the front axle circa 15kgs
2, less parasitic drive on the aux belt
3, less things to go wrong long term
4, cheaper aux belt changes
Chris
I've left it all at a friends garage (he's got 2 and 4 post ramps) but i did see a guy on cliosport had weighed the compressor and brackets and they came to 10kg's dead, and then the radiator, hoses and fluid etc weighed roughly 5kg's, so you could say roughly 15kg's all in.
Tbh, if your just after saving weight on a road car i'd leave it on, but for me i don't spend all my life behind the wheel of it, so for the time i do, i can manage without the luxuries most people take for granted.
Driving for a while with no radio or interior etc etc isn't for the faint hearted, i can't wait until a week on wednesday when i do brands hatch, the best part of 3-4 hours listening to the associated noises that comes from completely stripping a car
For me removing the aircon is beneficial for more reasons
1, less weight forward of the front axle circa 15kgs
2, less parasitic drive on the aux belt
3, less things to go wrong long term
4, cheaper aux belt changes
Chris
If you feel your trophy could be stiffer then the Mark Fish springs are the answer. 25 percent stiffer just about sums them up. A little less comfortable everyday, but the decrease in roll (and I guess the lower centre of gravity) helps create a noticeable increase in grip (with the rear Koni's). This is clear on the road but I wouldn't say the trophy is really lacking as standard for the road. I got frustrated at the Ring and decided I had to have it done.
- Thread starter
- #79
480bhp.com said:Can't wait too get my dampers now :wink:
Anyway back on subject, the final spec of the car is changing daily, and will take till early next year at a guess to complete, despite running at plenty of trackdays this year. But the spec so far is looking like:
Full Fia International Cage
Full bare shell respray inside and out in white
Suspension as listed previously
Complete rewire, ditching all the renault loom
Emerald ecu
Cable throttle body/pedal
amongst other things :wink:
I'll get some pictures up when the cars back on it's wheels, but it'll look poor in comparison to the picture i've now in my head of what it will look like when it's completely finished
Almost 5 Months to the day since i wrote the above, and boy have things changed
Fia Int cage made way for a clio cup racer cage (additional door bracing and front strut strengthening added)
Respray in white is still going ahead, all being well the shell will be ready for paint early/mid November
Trophy Sachs and MF springs have made way for AST Sportline II's
Rewire is still on the cards, just waiting for the shell to be ready
Emerald Ecu has been ditched in favour of an ecu from Tour-de-force
Cable Trottle body/pedal is still going in, but with a twist, the cable will now be attached to AT Throttle bodies at one end
As i said above there's loads more too, rather than keep up to date a full build related thread on 2 forums, it's mainly just listed on Cliosport.net
I'll add bits in here from time to time, but for anyone interested in where this is going, this thread may be on interest :wink: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=437863 It may be worth flicking through the 1st few pages as the spec changes by around the 3rd page :wink:
Chris
How tight did you guys tighten the top of the rear shock. I tried to get it to 20NM and the washer popped past the clip on the damper inner rod! Not good. Its now on almost finger tight as I don't want to push it, only it feels now like the car is completely out of sink. The back bounces about all over the place and it feels horrible.
Any help would be appreciated.
Any help would be appreciated.