This weeks Autocar - Trophy

[mr StinKa gob]

Yes and lets not lose site of the fact that you knock the trophy at just about every opportunity, we all know that your williams is way faster isnt it? 130mph and 7.7 to 60 according to autocar, but im sure they're wrong. Whats the matter - wouldn't mummy let you have one ?

Thats complete rubbish, ive often said that i like the trophy and if i wanted a new car at that price i would consider buying one. However, your quote from Autocar again shows what a load of shit they talk as the official fugures from Renault are 7.4 second to 62 mph and 134 mph. They cant even quote manufacturers figures correctly.

Unlike you though i seem to have kept a check on reality and understand that a 490 BHP supercar would not have a problem with a renault clio.

Anyone with a brain can see that in this thread i am not slating the trophy in any way. Im slating the journos that make stupid claims that unfortunately are beleived by gullible and nieve individuals.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Why would they 'fake' the results ? If it was a williams i doubt you'd be arguing this at all

Ask your self one question:

Would a 168 bhp trophy, beat a 490 bhp supercar that laps fiorana 3 seconds quicker than the f360?

If the answer to that is no, then you might see that the autocar results are 'dubious' at best.

And as for a Williams, i wouldnt be stupid enough to assume a Williams could get anywhere near a F430 on track.

Ive been fortunate enough to have a passenger ride in both a F355 and an F360, and the Trophy / Williams / 172 / 182 would be 20 car lengths behind at the end of the first straight on the first lap.

 

[hyb]

***BHP Vs ********BHP Doesn't mean its always a win for the big bhp. Take into account weather, driver ability, course knowledge. This wasn't fiorana either, so theres no point reffering to that. Tracks differ quite a bit.
Anyway, I can see your well set in your mind, so I'll leave you to diss the trophy at every possible opportunity and criticise car journalists that test cars for a living.

 

[Nik]

I've not read the article, so I wont comment either way, but I'd imagine in the wet that 490bhp would be hard to put down on the road, particularly with the wide tyres of a Ferrari.

Having driven the Trophy round brands hatch in torrential rain, I can vouch for just how much grip they have on the PE2's.

 

[hyb]

Exactly. But I think King stropers way of thinking is pure 'This car has more bhp than this car, must be faster!'

 

[Trophylover]

What i don't understand is why the trophy with its sachs dampers doesnt generate as much g in the corners as a run of the mill fiesta, not even an RS at that. There has to be some mistake somewhere.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Read a review of the Ferrari and look at the tech spec.

It is a race car with 490 bhp. It has a differnetial that 'simulates' 4wd. It has a gearbox using F1 technology. The driver can change the suspension settings based on different conditions. Its mostly made of aluminium and weighs just 1400 kgs giving a power to weight ratio of 331 bhp per tonne.

And its tyres will produce more grip than 205 PE2's. I can assure you of that.

Ontop of that the shape of the aerodynamic shape car will produce 'real downforce' to aid cornering.

The trophy is a good car in its class (maybe not even the best, depends what you read and believe).

LOL @ Trophy v supercar. This isnt a 172 cup forum you know? :roll:

 

[hyb]

yes....and....
The trophy comes in red, has metal pedals, 2 door handles and windscreen wipers front and back....

This has NOTHING to do with what the car has and can do. It's about the lap times around that circuit at that point in time with those conditions and 1 driver.

 

[mr StinKa gob]

What i don't understand is why the trophy with its sachs dampers doesnt generate as much g in the corners as a run of the mill fiesta, not even an RS at that. There has to be some mistake somewhere.

Its because resevoir dampers are not needed on a car as light as a Trophy. I get slated for saying this but the purpose of a resevoir damper is to prevent damper fade. It would be very hard to induce this in a car as light as the trophy, ergo, they arnt needed.

The fact that the Fiesta ST pulls more g in a corner should start alarm bells ringing in those that beleive the trophy is unbeatable.

It certainly doesnt need resevoir dampers.

.

 

[Nik]

To be fair I can see where Stromba is coming from, but clearly on this occasion and in those conditions, this was the result.

I dont think anyone on here is really thinking their car is now an F430 beater, but if in this one test in a cerain set of conditions it just happened to do so, then the people on this site are of course going to make the most of it. Stromba, maybe you should take it up with the magazine if you think there tests are rubbish, or unfairly biased in some way.

Or maybe the Mark 1 boys will once again destroy all the mark 2's on track as seems to be a regular occurance at track days. Either way, i shall look forward to recording it for all to see. :twisted:

It's comments like that which make me wish I'd never bothered to put my name down for the track day.

I know as I'm the only Trophy going that there will be people with the same attitude who will see it as their personal goal to 'destroy' me on the track. :roll:

I'm going there to enjoy driving my car around a circuit that I've always wanted to drive and couldn't give a toss if a milk float goes past me down the Craner's so long as i'm having fun :lol:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

Thats all well and good, but on one hand you extol the Trophy as the best Clio, then on the other expect ppl not to want to beat you.

People want to beat the perceived bench mark. The press have built it up, and now ppl want to know how good the car really is after the journos have finished with the bullshit. The Williams has proved itself on the 1/4 mile and the track to be the match of any of the mark 2's. Ppl ccan quote 7.7 to 60 all they like, but the fact remains that in the hands of its owners, the Williams is the real bench mark in the rteal world. The trophy is nothing until we see it on track and what it can do in the hands of its owners.

Surely you expect it? Especially doing a track day in a 'track orientated car'.

 

[Nik]

I wouldn't exactly say that I extol the Trophy as the best clio. I've never driven any Mk1 Clios, so i'm not in the position to do so, and don't believe I have ever seriously said that.

Yeah, I do expect it though, which is what i said above. What I dont expect is people to think that just because I turn up in a Trophy, that I reckon I should be the quickest thing out there. I've 'destroyed' Ultima GTR's, M3 CSL's and M5's on the track, but it doesn't mean anything, the drivers were clearly inexperienced and learning to drive their cars on track.

There will be loads of drivers out there better than me, so well expect them to be quicker than me. If overtaking a Trophy makes them feel good about themselves, then I'm glad to be of service. I just wont be loosing any sleep over it on Sunday night.

 

[Nik]

Of course if you'd like to lend me your Williams for a couple of laps, the we can see how the two cars compare in the hands of the same driver.

You never know you might just convince me that the Williams is the better car :wink:

Seriously though, its all good fun, i'm sure it's going to be a great day. Really looking forward to it now

 

[hyb]

I'd never considerd a clio before until i saw the 182's/trophys.
As for the williams, it does nothing for me, old and outdated. Like a oap with nike running shoes on.

:twisted:

 

[mr StinKa gob]

I'd never considerd a clio before until i saw the 182's/trophys.
As for the williams, it does nothing for me, old and outdated. Like a oap with nike running shoes on.

:twisted:

Fair enought, the Williams isnt your cup of tea. However, thats the sort of comment that alludes to the fact that you know very little about what you are talking about.

Can you tell me from an engineers point of view one component of the Clio Williams that isnt still used on modern cars?

Perhaps you would also like to tell me which car STILL holds most of the FWD rally records, 8 years after it ceased competition?

 

[hyb]

what the hell does that have to do with anything?
By the way, my dads bigger than yours.

 

[evo330]

Just how many M3 CSL 's have you destroyed on track and where Nik?
And was this in the Trophy?

 

[mr StinKa gob]

You said the Williams was old and outdated.

I asked in reply to tell me what on the car is outdated.

You came back with a stupid comment



Kind of proves you cant find anything on the Williams outdated.

And proves further you dont know what your talking about.

 

[Nik]

Just how many M3 CSL 's have you destroyed on track and where Nik?
And was this in the Trophy?

It was in my old 172 at Bedford Autodrome, and the CSL was being driven fairly slowly by its new owner. Dont worry it was soon putting me in my place by the end of the day :lol:

That was the point i was making, i dont start claiming my 172 was quicker than a CSL just because I overtook it on the track. :lol:

 

[Nik]

This thread is going nowhere now. The results of the test have been posted above, you can all draw your own conclusions.

Any complaints please contact the editor of Autocar magazine.